Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00)
Hello there. Welcome back to Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing at Lindner. I'm excited today to be joined by Rachael Spoon, a 2021 Lindner graduate who has carved out her own path as an entrepreneur. Rachael is here to share how her upbringing and education has shaped her ambitions, how she landed on Lindner and the University of Cincinnati, and how a passion for the wedding industry prompted her to start her own business, Rae and Company Weddings. Welcome Rachael. Thanks for being here.

Rachael Spoon: (00:32)
Thank you for having me.

Grant Freking: (00:33)
Of course. Thanks for making the trip up from Tennessee. I'd like to start at the beginning with guests of the show. What was your upbringing like? Were you from around here? How did you kind of, you know, where are you from

Rachael Spoon: (00:44)
If we're taking it all the way back to the beginning. Okay. I was born in Boston, Massachusetts.

Grant Freking: (00:46)
Oh, okay.

Rachael Spoon: (00:48)
Until I was seven when my family moved here to technically Loveland, Ohio.

Grant Freking: (00:52)
Okay.

Rachael Spoon: (00:52)
Where I lived until 2021 and then moved to Clarksville, Tennessee with my now husband. Okay. Um, I have four siblings. I'm the oldest of four. Oh, wow. And the only daughter, so there is Michael. He is actually here at UC studying computer science. Okay. David is in Covington working at Fidelity Investments and Matthew is in high school looking to play soccer in college. So, okay.

Grant Freking: (01:21)
How was it being the only female amongst three younger brothers?

Rachael Spoon: (01:25)
They tease me.

Grant Freking: (01:25)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (01:25)
They say that I'm the spoiled only daughter. Um, I think there's pros and cons to being the eldest. I have a lot of the like oldest daughter tendencies. I'm a perfectionist, I.

Grant Freking: (01:36)
mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (01:37)
Maybe a little bit of a goodie two shoes, but

Grant Freking: (01:39)
Yeah. Little bit of Enneagram type one.

Rachael Spoon: (01:41)
Oh yeah. Sort of, yeah. Mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (01:43)
Nice. So what was your draw to UC and Lindner? Was it pure location? Was it academics? Do you, what, what was, that wasn't too long ago for you.

Rachael Spoon: (01:51)
No, it wasn't. So when I was in high school applying to colleges, I didn't realize how profoundly one school could shape my life. And so, although I admit that UC wasn't at the top of my list at the time, not because I had anything against it, but because I didn't really understand what I wanted or what I needed in a college experience, looking back, I'm convinced that it was all part of God's plan for me to end up here. And the community, the values, the opportunities, who I became, who I grew into, everything at UC made me who I am today. So if I could go back in time, I'd choose UC 12 times outta 10, even though it wasn't maybe my initial want for my college experience.

Grant Freking: (02:37)
Mm-hmm . Right? Sure. Yeah. I think there's no way of knowing like what's ahead of you when you're like in that really overwhelming, it's like your first big adult decision, right. Is choosing a college for the most part. And so it's like, how can you know what's ahead of you? And we're certainly glad you landed on UC. Take me back to your beginnings here at Lindner and UC. How did you, did you know you wanted to do entrepreneurship right away? I did not. Yeah. Most people don't know what major is that. It's completely normal. So how did you find your way to that?

Rachael Spoon: (03:00)
I knew I wanted business, so I came in as business undecided.

Grant Freking: (03:03)
Sure.

Rachael Spoon: (03:03)
And then I think it was probably my freshman year, I had this sort of questioning of what do I really wanna do with my life and what are my goals and what are my interests? And as I sat down and thought about, you know, I love interior design and I'm really organized and I like the idea of logistics and making things efficient. I landed on operations management and then after taking an operations management class, decided maybe that wasn't the best route for me. And I think it was my sophomore year came up with this idea for a one stop shop venue where there were multiple themed venues all sitting on one piece of land so that I could cater to multiple people's styles. And in the process sort of landed on the wedding industry as the ultimate goal. And then entrepreneurship felt like just a no brainer next step. That was, I mean, that was it. And then I took my first entrepreneurship class and had this, oh my gosh, this is me moment.

Grant Freking: (04:09)
It must have been pretty fulfilling, satisfying, and like a little bit of sigh of relief too. Absolutely. A little bit more than like the OM class, which is great for some people and not great for others. I don't think I'm with you. Om would be like a little too much for me.

Rachael Spoon: (04:21)
I love the efficiency and logistics.

Grant Freking: (04:22)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (04:22)
Of what I do. But as far as operations management is concerned, I just don't think that was, that was not my personality. Mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (04:31)
Right. What other sort of touch points were there along the way at Lindner that sort of helped you get to where you're doing not only, I guess what you're doing now, but like fulfill, like your entrepreneurship, like complete the, the entrepreneurship circle at Lindner? Was it certain classes, interactions with professors, clubs, organizations? What, what sort of other stuff that's in there?

Rachael Spoon: (04:48)
I have to give almost all of that credit to my academic advisor, Brittany. Mm-hmm . She,

Grant Freking: (04:56)
Brittany Wagner.

Rachael Spoon: (04:57)
Brittany Wagner. Yeah. She, um, when I had the idea for the venue, I started talking about it to all of my professors. I wrote all my papers about it.

Grant Freking: (05:03)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (05:03)
It was, it became everything. I carried around this little book with me all the time everywhere, so that if I ever had an idea, I could just jot it down no matter where I was or what I was doing. And in one of our meetings, I was, I think maybe swapping my major and we started talking about it. And so then every time I was going back to her, we were having more conversations about it. And when I graduated in 2021, she got engaged and she reached out and said, do you wanna plan my wedding? And I looked at her like she was crazy because no pressure. I've never done anything like that before. I knew I wanted to maybe go into that industry, but the idea had evolved then.

Rachael Spoon: (05:41)
And, you know, there were all sorts of other things going on, and I was graduating and didn't exactly have a plan. And I looked at her and I said, I don't, I've never done that. Are you, are you sure you want me to plan your wedding? And she was like, yeah, I think you'd be great at it. And so I did. And it was, the only way that I can even think to describe it is electric. Uh, there was electricity coursing through my veins the entire wedding day. I loved the chaos of the behind the scenes and the organizing all of the details, sort of a project management, if you wanna think about it. Yeah. But organizing all the details to get her to the wedding day. And that just kickstarted Rae & Co. So from there it's been wedding planning. And then to her credit too, I think it's setting me up for success when I do open the venue and I'm gonna have experiences and connections and real data and real clients to draw from when I'm doing that in the future.

Grant Freking: (06:43)
So you're almost like your most impactful experiential learning opportunity came like right after you graduated, but hey, you still got it though?

Rachael Spoon: (06:49)
I, I have to. Yeah. I mean, that was like the biggest one. That was why I started Sure. Rae and Co. So that, I have to give her credit there. But all of my professors were incredible. I think my, when I look back at my time at UC and I talk to people, I talk about my professors and my mentors, not the football games or the, you know, extracurricular or whatever.

Grant Freking: (07:13)
It's the people.

Rachael Spoon: (07:13)
It's, it really is the people. And it was my time here at Lindner that, that shaped my entire college experience. That's what I look back with the most fondness.

Grant Freking: (07:25)
And that's why you went wandering around the building before, before you, before you met me today. So yeah. It's, I'm glad it holds a special place for you. So let's go back, let's go back to some more of your activities within college. You were also in the, um, Ohio Army National Guard, right? Mm-hmm . Yes. So tell me about that experience.

Rachael Spoon: (07:42)
I enlisted straight out of high school with the intent of joining ROTC here at UC.

Grant Freking: (07:47)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (07:48)
Um, and, and then served for six years after that. So just got out in 2023.

Grant Freking: (07:55)
mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (07:56)
That's not just got out in 2023 . Um, I drove trucks. I was an 88 mike, so a motor transportation operator, and that was once a month, weekends and two weeks in the summer. So,

Grant Freking: (08:12)
So what was it the, the impetus behind that? Is that something you always wanted to do? Is something different? Is it familial connection to armed forces as well? Maybe that kind of drew you in.

Rachael Spoon: (08:22)
A little bit. We have a joke in my family that it is the family business. My mom was an engineer officer. Okay. My dad was an armor officer, both grandparents, both grandfathers served.

Grant Freking: (08:34)
mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (08:35)
And my husband is, is in as well. And then my, um, traitorous brother who joined the Navy instead of the Army ,

Grant Freking: (08:43)
She said, with the distain mm-hmm . So let's get back to, to your business. Where is it, where was it at at the beginning and sort of where is it at now? Kind of gimme like the two-sided view there.

Rachael Spoon: (08:53)
So the beginning is is Brittany. Is Brittany. Yeah. And, and then when I realized that it, I had this aha moment during her wedding of, oh my gosh, this is something that I wanna do. And so that was where I started and it was, I think it was probably pretty slow at the beginning. It didn't realize when you're in the entrepreneurship major, they talk about all these startups and this is how you get funding and you talk to angel investors and you do these things. And, but when you're actually starting and you have this, what feels like a very small idea, there's a lot more to it than just like going to find an investor or, you know, pitching your startup and getting crowdfunding. And so I built Rae & Co. All on my own. I did my website, I made my own logo. I, you know, paid for the Google Ads and built those out and researched and did everything. And I could not have done it without the support of my family and mentors that I have, but it was all me. It wasn't this, you know, big team effort where I had lots of, had this established business to build off of mm-hmm . So I don't know if that answered your question.

Grant Freking: (10:06)
It does. Now that leads me to doubt. Tell me about your, I'm sure you had moments of doubt along the way too, where like, is this worth it? Is this worth all my time? I'm sure you're spending on donating lots of weekend time to this around your otherwise busy schedule. Tell me, talk to me about doubt.

Rachael Spoon: (10:22)
I think that's a normal part of any entrepreneur's journey.

Grant Freking: (10:29)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (10:30)
And I do have these moments of am I qualified to be doing this? And am I actually good at doing this? And then the wedding day comes around and I have the aha moment again.

Grant Freking: (10:42)
Yeah. You shed the imposter syndrome. Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (10:44)
Yes. Absolutely. Um, I think even failure failure's not just a part of success, it's a necessary part of success. And I had stuff that happened at UC that was, it's kind of embarrassing, but I failed algebra mm-hmm . Like twice, and it took a third time to pass that class in order to even be able to graduate. So it's not just, oh yeah. Failure, failure is a part of success. It is a necessary part of success. And every single wedding teaches me something new every single time. And maybe the couple doesn't know about it, but something goes wrong every time. And sure. I have to adapt and improvise and overcome those things. So.

Grant Freking: (11:26)
Right. I'm wondering about how you acquire, acquire your, your clients. Um, not everyone of course, is like a former academic advisor waiting to be married to test you out. So how has it maybe evolved from, you know, is it easier now for you? How, how, how did, like the word get spread? Um, aside from like, you know, did the Google ads work? I'm interested in how you acquired your clients over the years.

Rachael Spoon: (11:46)
At the beginning, a lot of it was word of mouth.

Grant Freking: (11:48)
Mm.

Rachael Spoon: (11:48)
And then when I started the Google ads, that that really helped. They're very complicated. So I am now paying a digital marketing agency to run those for me and working with a consultant behind the scenes to fix my automations and workflow processes and my overall planning process to make me more efficient, which I love. Um, but there's been a definite, like the beginning was slow and I did two weddings my first year and then booked five in my second year. And now I have three in just May of this year.

Grant Freking: (12:25)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (12:25)
So there's, there's definite growth. There's, it's always, there's always things changing and moving and evolving and always small adjustments being made, but mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (12:38)
Do you run into other entrepreneurs, whether it's in the wedding industry, um, often and or maybe outside of it? And I'm curious if like they, you hear any feedback from them or like, you know, you know, you kind of give, maybe give 'em look like you're kind of going through it right now too. Is anything like that?

Rachael Spoon: (12:52)
I think almost all of the wedding vendors that I interact with are entrepreneurs.

Grant Freking: (12:56)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (12:56)
They're photographers who started small or florists who started in just their house and have grown their businesses. And so there's a lot of that sort of, oh, I really get what you're going through. And there's so many weird, complicated things about running a business that you don't even realize. Like filing for my LLC is a weird thing. I had to call the Department of Revenue to figure out where I needed to get my business license.

Grant Freking: (13:20)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (13:21)
And you need one for the county and the state and the city. Like, there's weird things that you just don't realize. And I have to, I have to give credit here to one of my mentors, Jeff Heineken. Um, I met him through UC actually. And he has helped so much with all of those small little things here and there. And, and then his legal expertise has helped me make sure that my business is protected, both from a planning perspective, but then as, as an LLC.

Grant Freking: (13:51)
You mentioned earlier, um, part of like your grand dream is the venue. Let's, let's hear more about that.

Rachael Spoon: (13:56)
Oh, well, that idea has evolved quite a bit since its original conception.

Grant Freking: (13:59)
Okay.

Rachael Spoon: (13:59)
But, uh, we're actually working right now. I have funding and we probably later this year will purchase land in close to Nashville, Tennessee. Mm-hmm . We're looking for about a hundred acres. And then there's going to be multiple venues that are all themed differently. So they'll be, you know, the, the generic sort of warehouse type barn space, blank space.

Grant Freking: (14:28)
mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (14:29)
Really pretty, but a blank slate.

Grant Freking: (14:31)
Sure.

Rachael Spoon: (14:31)
And then there'll be other themed venues. And I've, I've taken inspiration from like my travels and places I've been and things I've seen. So there'll be, you know, I want Castle Ruins that look like they were pulled straight out of Ireland and an Italian villa that looks like it was pulled out of Tuscany. And so I want to, we're, I think we're gonna start with three venues and then eventually get to more than that.

Rachael Spoon: (14:59)
But there's not, scale doesn't exist in the wedding industry. When you do a wedding, it's a, for me it's a 16 hour day, so I can't do more than one wedding in one day. And a lot of venues operate that same way. So there's one venue and there's one ceremony location, and there's one reception location, and they're stuck. So then they charge couples to turn the string lights on or to use the fancy chairs or to use their linens or whatever it is. And I experienced this with a lot of my couples, is this frustration that the venue was supposed to be X amount and instead it's x plus plus plus plus plus plus, right?

Grant Freking: (15:39)
Yep.

Rachael Spoon: (15:39)
And so the idea of my venue has evolved into this thing where we can achieve scale and we don't have to charge couples x plus plus plus, we can just charge them X.

Rachael Spoon: (15:52)
So because there are three weddings happening in one day in three different locations on the land, we don't have to charge them to turn the string lights on or to use the tables or the fancy chairs or whatever it is. And so I'm hoping to revolutionize the wedding industry. That feels like a very scary and big and daunting thing to say, but it was one of the first things I said when I was starting out and had this idea for the venue was, I wanna revolutionize this industry because it just doesn't exist this way anywhere.

Grant Freking: (16:24)
Yeah. What's the feedback you've gotten on, on that particular idea from, even from maybe couples that you've helped out or other, other people, other peers in the industry?

Rachael Spoon: (16:33)
All of my couples have said that they wish that it was already open so that they could get married there. , and industry professionals have said that they love the idea and I get a lot of like, oh, be careful of noise or be careful of, you know, this or that, things that they've experienced. But I've also taken that feedback and our venue is gonna be built with so much intentionality. So a lot of wedding venues that you go to, it's like an old, something that they turned into a venue or they had one wedding there because somebody liked the space and then they thought, oh, this is kind of easy. We can just do this and make money off of it, or whatever. We are building these venues from the ground up with every single detail well thought out from a client perspective, from a guest experience perspective, and from a vendor perspective.

Grant Freking: (17:26)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (17:27)
So I go to, I go to venues and there's nowhere for me to put my stuff. So I've put it in bridal suites and I've put it under the DJ stand and I've stuck it under the sink at the bathroom. I've put it in the kitchen. Like there's no, there's nowhere for me to have a touchdown space. So in all of our venues, we'll have a touchdown space. We'll have a, a large enough bridal suite that girls aren't stacked on top of each other and a groom suite, because so often grooms are just forgotten or

Grant Freking: (17:54)
Wandering around.

Rachael Spoon: (17:55)
Yeah. They wander or they get stuck in some small closet and they're like, here, hang out here for a little while.

Grant Freking: (18:00)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (18:00)
So they're getting ready at a different location. And I think that there's, I, I like the togetherness of it all happening in one place and it being done well. So

Grant Freking: (18:10)
Wwhat advice would you give to current or prospective students tips, tricks of the trade? Maybe not tricks of the trade, but sort of like, sort to sort of, um, maybe ease them of like the same concerns that you had about your, your life as a, as a freshman or a sophomore here at Lindner and sort and sort of propelling them on their own journey?

Rachael Spoon: (18:31)
My initial reaction to you saying that was, it was so much harder than I thought it was going to be. I had this, this grand idea of I'm gonna graduate college and I'm gonna start the venue immediately and I'm just gonna get all the money because this is such a great idea. But we're, I'm now four years outta college and only just now making these larger strides on the venue. But I think that my advice is to lean into like mentors and building a group of people around you.

Grant Freking: (19:08)
Yeah.

Rachael Spoon: (19:08)
That support you and pour into you and are excited about your excitement and your passions. Because I've been told no, but then I can turn around and someone says, well, they said no because they don't understand or they don't see the vision or whatever it is. And I don't think it's blind optimism. I think it's having a good support team and it's more than just, oh, my mom says it's a great idea. .

Grant Freking: (19:30)
Right. Yeah. So maybe some cheerleaders, but some like realistic cheerleaders. Absolutely. Right. Let's close with this. What's your favorite memory at Lindner and UC?

Rachael Spoon: (19:40)
That is kind of an easy answer for me. All right. And it is my junior year of college, which actually ended up being when COVID started.

Grant Freking: (19:49)
So, yeah. So we're off to a curious start here.

Rachael Spoon: (19:50)
Off to a curious start. Um, it was one of my entrepreneurship classes and we had to, everyone in the class had to come up with an idea. We had to pitch the idea to the class, and then we voted on only five or six of them. So I pitched my idea, my idea was selected, and then we had to build a team, create an actual product, and sell that product. So it was for refresh the responsible alcohol aid, which was specific supplements chosen to help remedy hangover.

Grant Freking: (20:25)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (20:26)
Symptoms, quote unquote. Um, and so when we began that semester in January of 2020, we had all of our, you know, we, we knew who our market was and we were gonna go to bars and we were gonna hand them out as people were walking in and get 'em to buy 'em and all this stuff. And then March hit when sure.

Rachael Spoon: (20:47)
When COVID happened and we stopped coming to school and we turned everything to online and we had to pivot and figure out who our new market was and how we were gonna sell this product. Because at that point we had already bought everything. We had to figure out how to assemble these little packets and get people to buy them. And I think COVID ended up being really helpful for that. 'cause people were home and so they were working from home. And so we sold them. I think we like put stuff out on Facebook and put stuff out on Instagram. And so people ended up reaching out and we beat this current, at the time, it was the current record for the most gross sales of anybody in that class ever. Um, I don't know if we're still the record. I hope so.

Grant Freking: (21:36)
You have to check with your professor.

Rachael Spoon: (21:36)
Fingers crossed. I'd have to ask. Yeah. But that was, is definitely, definitely a favorite, a favorite memory. I look back on that and that's what I talk about when people ask me about my time as a student in the entrepreneurship major. And then as a sort of a culmination of my four years, I was nominated by my professors as the outstanding student of the year.

Grant Freking: (21:58)
Mm-hmm .

Rachael Spoon: (21:58)
Or Entrepreneurship Student of the Year, my senior year. And that was, I think, one of my proudest moments because it was, they see the potential, they see that I, I have what it takes Yeah. To be an entrepreneur. And they saw the drive and the focus and the everything else from the past four years. So

Grant Freking: (22:22)
That's awesome. What great memory. All right. Well, my thanks to Rachael Spoon for dropping by the Lindner Podcast studio today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five star review for Bearcats Mean Business on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Rachael Spoon: (22:38)
Go Bearcats.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
From working in and running kitchens in Cincinnati area hotels and the Gordon Ramsey Group in New York City, to launching his own company, Somesh Saxena has taken a unique journey from Lindner student to entrepreneur. In 2022, after years at GE Aerospace, Somesh made the leap from working at a massive corporation to founding Pantomath, where he's attempting to change how companies monitor and support their data pipelines. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing at the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business. On this episode of Bearcats Mean Business, Somesh joins me to chat about the challenges and thrills of building a business, what inspired him to pursue entrepreneurship, how his time at Lindner helped shape his passions and career path, and much more. Somesh, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Somesh Saxena: (00:46)
Thanks for having me. Grant.

Grant Freking: (00:47)
Walk me through what your day-to-day life looks like today compared to three years ago, March, 2022, when Pantomath was founded.

Somesh Saxena: (00:55)
Yeah. When, uh, very different is the short answer. Um,

Grant Freking: (00:59)
I'm sure.

Somesh Saxena: (01:00)
when Pantomah founded Grant, we were a very, very tiny seed stage company, had just raised a $4 million round of funding. It was a handful of folks locked up in a room, uh, in a co-located workspace, really just trying to figure out, you know, A, do people want this, you know, um, I of course had some conviction in the idea, which is why I left my job at GE and started this company. But, but, you know, a lot more market validation is needed, not just in terms of, Hey, the problem we're solving, is it a relevant problem? Uh, is this something people care about? But also how do we go about solving it, right? What do people want? Um, what, what are the more nuanced and technical challenges they're facing in the space that we're working in?

Somesh Saxena: (01:46)
And how do we go about solving that? What product do we build? So a lot of market validation, uh, a lot of product exploration, uh, and also a whole lot of internal conversations, uh, both on the product front in terms of, uh, the what and the why. Uh, and then also solving the problem of the how, which was honestly the tougher problem to solve given, uh, Pantomath's a very technical solution. It's a, it's a technical platform, and so one of its kind run, nothing like it in the world really exists out there. So, so that was the early days. Um, uh, a lot of fun, a lot of unknowns, a lot of open-endedness. Um, um, and, you know, these days we're fortunate to be one of the faster growing startups in the country. Multiple rounds of multimillion dollars of funding, several large Fortune five hundreds using us.

Somesh Saxena: (02:29)
Um, and, uh, a team, almost 50 people large. Um, you know, the world looks very different for me specifically, uh, um, what, what I'm doing these days, um, is mostly focused on, you know, our customers, ensuring they're getting value out of the product, uh, focused on recruiting, focused on building the team and growing and scaling this up. And, and more so in general, uh, more traditionally running the company. Of course, it's not a large organization. There's still a whole lot of startup mentality and, and energy and, and drive that we're, uh, building this with a lot of urgency that we move quickly with. But end of the day, it is still and a company, right? We have, we have so many different departments that all, um, you know, need to collaborate and work well together, A lot of cross-functional work happening. And so a whole lot of my time is dedicated externally with customers and also with building out our, our team.

Somesh Saxena: (03:20)
Um, and then internally just making sure we, we, you know, I'm enabling and empowering my direct reports, our leadership team to go solve problems and, and help our customers out. Um, and then just lastly, um, uh, what's funny is a version of what we did in the seed stage, which is trying to figure out how to build a certain thing, how to have, um, um, uh, really, really innovative technologies to go solve customer challenges is also what we're kind of doing, but with ai, right? Because we've expanded the scope of the, the company recently, uh, to be a whole lot more than what we started out with, and that's very exciting. And so we're in parallel to everything I just described in terms of my daily life today, we're also, um, doing a whole bunch of early stage, call it seed stage style of development in the AI front, in the gen AI world.

Grant Freking: (04:12)
I heard business problem many times in that, in that response, what was it? What business problem is Pantomath attempting to solve? And what was it about its potential that prompted you to leave a job where you were leading more than a hundred people as the head of GE Aerospace's enterprise data and analytics team?

Somesh Saxena: (04:28)
Yeah, ge I was supporting 18,000 data consumers in the company. I was seeing my technical teams, business stakeholders, executives even struggle with data reliability issues and operational challenges. Um, you know, from a technical standpoint, it was, it was embarrassing for us. And honestly, every other team out there feels this too outside of GE where a, you know, it's reactive when your internal stakeholders or sometimes external customers tell you there's a problem in what you're delivering to them, right? Which in our case is data products and data reports. And when they tell you something's wrong, um, you then have to go and manually troubleshoot things. You have to reverse engineer data pipelines across several different data platforms to identify the root cause, understand the impact across the board. And it's extremely challenging to do, given the scale and complexity of an organization the size of GE or any other large Fortune 500 and, and was living with that pain and saw my teams struggle with that challenge quite a bit.

Somesh Saxena: (05:37)
And then also in my leadership role, I also saw the impact of that, right? Um, and talked to my, you know, peers in the industry, other data leaders and other companies, and realize it's not just a GE problem. Every company faces this. And, uh, of course, I kind of knew a version of that already, but, but going through the more nuanced and technical use cases and trying to figure out what exactly goes wrong in cross platform data pipelines that power data products and data reports, um, those challenges were also not GE specific. All of that was very general and universal in terms of the challenges organizations face that is industry agnostic. It's agnostic to the size of the organization, it's just the nature of the data analytics stack and how data pipelines are built and developed and the world we live in based on, based on that technology landscape. And so that, you know, talking to leaders out there outside of GE two gave me the confidence that this is not just a GE problem to solve. This is a problem that everyone cares about and everyone wants to solve. And so gave me the, the encouragement I needed to, to, you know, go and go and build a company to solve this problem. Um, yeah.

Grant Freking: (06:49)
And you've, you've obviously are an entrepreneur. Now, did you always want to be an entrepreneur and did, and if so, did you have any entrepreneurial or even business role models that you kind of leaned on when you were kind of in the early stages of this, of this con of this company and founding Pantomath?

Somesh Saxena: (07:07)
Yeah, to be honest, actually never thought I'd be an entrepreneur. I always thought, um, I, um, would, um, maybe join a startup at some point in my life. Uh, I saw a few startups at GE that we brought in that did really well. And so outside in, I was part of their journey with them. I was on the customer advisory boards, was keynote speaker at their conferences. And, and, uh, again, it was part of their journey. So I always thought that, yeah, maybe I could maybe be part of a startup, but I never thought that I could start one, and I never thought I could be an entrepreneur that takes on, um, that, that really, really big responsibility of leading an organization. And, um, um, honestly, the, the, um, turning point for me, uh, was, um, my brother's journey. Uh, my brother Shashank Saxena has been very instrumental in my journey.

Somesh Saxena: (07:57)
Uh, and he was the one that motivated me and encouraged me, gave me the confidence I needed to become an entrepreneur. Um, he local Cincinnati, uh, uh, started a company called VNDLY, uh, a vendor management software system, um, and built it right here in Cincinnati from the ground up four years in, they sold to, um, Workday for $510 million, and one of the larger exits in the, in the tech and software space for Cincinnati. And a great outcome for everyone involved in the company, including all the employees and investors. Uh, and Shashank, my brother as a CEO and co-founder had, you know, been through that entire journey end to end. Um, and so he not just opened doors for me when it comes to venture capital, when it comes to other leaders in the space that I could talk to for market validation, but he also, more importantly, was very instrumental in, in helping guide me on how to go about building a company. You know, the day-to-day challenges that an entrepreneur faces, especially in the early days. Everything is chicken and egg, right? Uh, you have to make tough decisions and it's, it's different level of grit that's required to do this. And so, you know, he's been a mentor to me every step of the way. And, uh, just looking at his, at his journey and what he accomplished, of course, with the support of his team and a lot of other great folks around him, um, really gave me, uh, the encouragement I needed to, to do this.

Grant Freking: (09:22)
I'm curious about your brother's involvement in another aspect of your business, and that's sort of rounding out your leadership team, which is an essential part of any business, regardless of what sector they represent.

Somesh Saxena: (09:32)
Yeah, my brother actually, uh, like I mentioned, uh, was part of Pantomath since the early days, but more kind of outside in, right? He, um, had a great outcome and exit with Workday. He was with Workday for a couple of years. Um, and, and so he wasn't directly involved with, uh, the daily operations of Pantomath. He was more of a, call it CEO mentor, uh, and he was on the board of directors since day one. Um, but more recently he's joined us as CEO. Um, and, and I'm currently the president of Pantomath. So we've expanded the leadership team, uh, to include Shashank, include his co-founder from VNDLY as well, um, and their CTO from VNDLY. Uh, and so, uh, the existing Pantomath team and the leadership team at Pantomath was already pretty phenomenal, uh, which is why, um, you know, uh, we have seen the traction we've seen in the, in the first, uh, few years and, uh, fortunate to, to, you know, provide value to customers through everything we've built and developed.

Somesh Saxena: (10:29)
Um, but bringing on people who've been there, done that and, and, you know, really heavy hitters who, um, have, have had a go at this before, um, brings so much more experience and expertise to the team. And Shashank is of course, front and center of that, uh, with him coming on, uh, over the last month, month and a half as a CEO, um, to take the company in, in, in many, many newer directions beyond the foundation. We've, of course built, which is really good, but I mentioned AI earlier. And so expanding the scope of Pantomath to not just be a data pipeline, observability and traceability platform that more so detects problems and gives folks the understanding of how to resolve issues. We're now expanding into, um, becoming an automated data operations platform that doesn't just, um, tell you there's a problem, but also resolves those issues for you. And, um, that's really exciting for me.

Grant Freking: (11:22)
Now, let's transition to your time at Lindner. What do you remember about your studies and experiences as an information student at Lindner in uc?

Somesh Saxena: (11:30)
I had a great experience at, at uc. It was, um, I actually wasn't there for, for that long because, uh, I started, um, um, my bachelor's degree and, and, uh, going to uc a bit later in my life, I switched careers. And so I, uh, actually graduated in just two and a half years. I kind of loaded up on 18 credits each semester and got through it somewhat, somewhat quicker than, than, um, the traditional time it takes to go through a program like that. But nonetheless, I had a great experience, um, amazing professors. Um, I, um, was very, um, uh, heavily influenced by the database design classes and, um, and, uh, any, anything related to IT, architecture and database design was my first love, uh, in, at uc. And that led me to the journey I was on with GE, you know, doing everything from hands-on data engineering and BI development to self-service data programs to democratize data and bring about a digital cultural transformation at GE Aerospace, all the way to, of course, Pantomath, which plays heavily in the data analytics space.

Somesh Saxena: (12:32)
So I think that that starting point came, came at uc because without the right foundational understanding of something that you of course get at a, at a place like, um, the Lindner College of Business, I wouldn't have been able to, you know, do the rest of the journey. Um, so yeah, amazing professors and, and great experience overall, really well structured curriculum and, and, um, good exposure to, to, you know, the business world to internships and co-ops. And, um, I remember meeting GE, Um, aviation at the career fair, uh, at uc, which led to my internship with them, which led to my, um, inclusion in the, their digital technology leadership program. And, uh, and that's, that was the start of my career. So, uh, in more ways than one, um, really fond memories of uc. And it's been, again, uh, very, very, it's played an important role in my career.

Grant Freking: (13:18)
Now, you mentioned, uh, GE Aviation as a, a co-op and internship experience. You also did a similar one with Kroger. How did those experiences impact your career goals and, and skill development as you sort of navigated your way, uh, and sort of like your second career, as you mentioned, you went to college a little later in life to, to finding your fit.

Somesh Saxena: (13:40)
Work in a space without understanding how it works. 360. Um, and both Kroger and especially GE really encouraged that type of mentality. Um, getting interns exposure to more than just their intern project, you know, um, a very open culture. Go and talk to leaders, um, schedule one-on-ones with whoever you want. Um, um, you know, planned events where interns are talking to C-level executives in the company. And so that was really good 'cause I was very curious. I could ask them a bunch of questions and, you know, a really good culture, like I said, of giving back and, you know, helping early career professionals, um, and figuring out kinda what they need. So the biggest thing it helped me with besides exposure Grant, was really just to understand the different areas of the business, different domains within IT, and what I wanted to focus on. And, um, beyond the internships, even the, uh, GEs IT leadership program now called the Digital Technology Leadership Program that I went through was a two year long program with four six month long rotations.

Somesh Saxena: (14:40)
It was a permanent position in the company, but starting out, um, with a rotational program really helps you go broad before you go deep. And so I did everything from IT project management to software development, uh, and cybersecurity data and analytics and, uh, all within different domains of the business, right? Some stuff was more kind of horizontal COE functions. Some stuff was more plugged into different areas of the business called it sales and marketing or supply chain and so on. And so really, uh, both the domain knowledge, at least within GE, relative to GE Aerospace, and more generally speaking, um, domains within IT, um, as we define them, really got to understand all of that, of course, at a surface level early on. But that gave me the understanding and the confidence I needed in then being able to pick a career path that made sense to me, which in my case was, was data and analytics and the enterprise data function within an organization. Um, that of course, I was in with GE for, for a while that led me to, to Pantomath eventually.

Grant Freking: (15:39)
Now, earlier you mentioned sort of your, your first career. You spent many years working as a line cook in hotels, also served al as a culinary manager. What did you gain from those experiences from your, your so-called first career?

Somesh Saxena: (15:51)
Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, for those, those that that don't know, I, um, um, moved here from India in 2006. I was 17 years old. Um, went to Le Cordon Blue, it's a French culinary school. I also worked for Gordon Ramsey in his Michelin Star restaurant in New York. Uh, and, um, most recently before, um, switching careers, I was a culinary manager for the banquet business at the Hyatt Regency in downtown Cincinnati. Um, and, uh, you know, the biggest thing I learned in that entire journey was two things. I would say it's grit and problem solving. And those two things have really served me well throughout my career, especially more so as an entrepreneur than than, uh, my time at probably GE or, or elsewhere. Um, you know, when you're, when you're a chef or a line cook and you know, it's a busy Saturday night and you have, you have, um, you know, a restaurant full of people, um, especially in the fine dining world, that's, you know, three to five, seven courses and all need to be timed perfectly.

Somesh Saxena: (16:53)
And, you know, everyone's seen the TV shows of course, these days. So, you know, the level of kind of grit you need to go through that day in, day out, um, the level of problem solving you need on the fly, um, to just go and figure things out. It's, it's, um, it, it just, you have to just have it right. There is no other option. Um, and, um, and that again, is, is really come to play a much larger part than I would've realized in the early days, um, especially at my time at Pantomath building a company from scratch.

Grant Freking: (17:23)
Sure. Let's close with some advice. What tips can you supply to current and maybe even prospective Lindner students seeking to start their own business or just be part of a startup?

Somesh Saxena: (17:34)
Yeah, I'd say a few things. Um, I'd say anyone that's looking to start a business, look for a problem worth solving, you know, look for something that is a real pain point for people, um, do market validation. There's a book called the Mom Test, the Mom Test. Uh, it's a good one to read. Um, the idea is go talk to people, not who would ideally be nice to you, but, but people who actually don't have any reason to be nice to you. And ask them about your, your, your idea. Um, is it, is this a problem we're solving? Is this something they'd pay money for? Uh, and that's true market validation to understand if, if you're onto something, or is this a solution looking for a problem to begin with? And, and that's never a good place to be, right? So, so that's my, that's my first piece of advice for anyone, um, is to get market validation and be objective in the way you, you hear it, right?

Somesh Saxena: (18:23)
Um, everyone of course thinks their idea is the best one in the world, and it's their baby, and especially if it's flSomeshed out enough, uh, or, or fleshed out enough, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's more than just an idea that for pen to paper, they probably have, in the technology world, at least speaking, like, you know, you'd have features, you may even have written some code and, and built a ui. And, um, it's much tougher to learn that what you're building, either A, needs some changes or updates, or B maybe just isn't valuable. It's much tougher to hear that much later. Much easier, as hard as it is to hear that upfront. And so, my advice truly, uh, behind the original advice is don't be defensive. Think about things objectively. Listen, actively listen to what people are seeing. Um, and don't take it personally.

Somesh Saxena: (19:13)
It could lead to really, really good things up front. You could avoid some mistakes and look around corners, um, if you, if you, um, go into these conversations to validate your idea with an open mind. Um, second one, maybe a bit more, um, just specific to how I think and how I operate, um, as an entrepreneur, I would tell everyone this is work every day like it's your first day at the job or first day building your business, right? Um, there's no substitute for hard work as, as everyone knows. And so, um, that's, that's all I'd leave folks with.

Grant Freking: (19:46)
Well, my thanks again to Somesh Saxena for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. Interested in studying or getting involved in entrepreneurship or startup activities at the Lindner College of Business? Consider getting involved with the Center for Entrepreneurship, which is a range of programs, resources, and services for students to participate in. Students can also major or minor in entrepreneurship, or pursue a graduate certificate in entrepreneurship. Visit business.uc.edu for more information. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Marianne Lewis: (00:00)
The UC Real Estate Center's Annual Dinner highlights the accomplishments of the center, the real estate academic program center supporters, Lindner faculty and staff, and distinguished students and alumni. The annual dinner returns for its 34th year on Wednesday, June 11th at Historic Cincinnati Music Hall. My name is Marianne Lewis, Dean and Professor of Management at Lindner. Welcome back to another episode of Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business. On today's episode, I'm joined by Shenan Murphy, vice chairman of Cincinnati, Dayton, and Cleveland Akron Colliers, who will be receiving the Distinguished Real Estate Service Award at this year's annual dinner. Shenan is here to talk about his career in real estate and his connection to Lindner and UC. Congratulations and welcome, Shenan.

Shenan Murphy: (00:55)
Thanks, Dean Lewis. I'm so excited to be here. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

Marianne Lewis: (01:00)
Oh, I'm, I'm thrilled to have you here, Shenan, and congratulations. This is wonderful. I'm looking forward to celebrating you that night today. I, I would love to just start, I've been touched by your personal story, and I think it's important for people, especially when I think about my students, to understand the curvy roads that we've all walked to get where we are. Would you tell us a little bit about yourself and, and that road for you? What was the journey like?

Shenan Murphy: (01:25)
Well, it's been crazy, uh, as I've said, uh, recently, this, this award means a lot. And it's, um, it's an honor to be here and it brings a lot of nostalgia to it. 'cause it recognizes, makes you look back in your career and look back on your life and see what UC has meant to you, what mentors have meant to you, what people along the way. And I recently was at an event and I had to give a toast, uh, with the company. And I said, if I were 18 years old and there was a contract presented to me, and I would be dead at 50, and this would be your life's journey with family and business and friends and the great relationships, I would've signed that contract in a heartbeat. And here I sit ready to celebrate my 60th birthday. So I've gotten some bonus years.

Shenan Murphy: (02:03)
And I'm very excited. Now. The personal journey has been one of a variety, uh, fortune. I've been in the right place at the right time. I was raised by, um, a single mom. My father left when I was 12. And, um, it was a very difficult situation. Our house was foreclosed on when I was 14 years old, and here I am in real estate. And so I don't know if that was some, um, God's intervention of inspiration to go into real estate.

Marianne Lewis: (02:28)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (02:29)
But along the way, uh, as you know, I played baseball here at the University of Cincinnati. So sports has been a big part of my life, my family's life. And what sports did for me at that developmental stage when things were tough, it gave me a lot of self-esteem. It gave me a lot of hope, it gave me a lot of confidence.

Shenan Murphy: (02:44)
And I'm so thankful for all the coaches who leaned into me, all the parents that leaned into me. And back then, you know, communities were communities and that's how they, they raised people. And that led me onto a professional career where I take a lot of those lessons I learned back then, and I try to apply 'em today and just try to do the right thing. So it's been, it's been a crazy journey. I started in business, uh, right after the graduation University of Cincinnati. I went to a training program at the company was called West Shell, which is the West Shell Junior Fellowship, which here at the real estate department means something. And.

Marianne Lewis: (03:15)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (03:15)
Uh, my first job paid $14,000, and I got to work as a bartender at night to try to pay the bills. And so along the way, um, I started off doing just research and analytical work, and then I had a great mentor and I got a chance to become a broker. And then, um, 10 years later, I bought the business in 2000. And that was, uh, quite a journey along the way. Couldn't do it without the great team we've had, uh, at the company and the great mentors I've had along the way.

Marianne Lewis: (03:43)
Shenan, if you would, I I, I'd love you to talk a little bit about what it was like being a first gen student. And the reason I wanna dig into that a bit is I'm really proud that the last couple of years we've actually doubled two years in a row, the number of first generation students we have. And I think, I believe that education is powerful. And through those students and through your story, I I've also trying to understand how to help them further because that is a really big step, not only for the student, but for generations to come. What was that like for you?

Shenan Murphy: (04:17)
Yeah, great question. Um, you know, I have a saying, knowledge is power. And if you have knowledge, you can use that power in many ways, uh, to influence, to build teams, to, to advance yourself. Uh, I didn't know what college was. And I was fortunate when, uh, coming out of, uh, my grade school. I took a test and a test was for Cincinnati Public Schools. And by the good grace, I passed it and I was able to go to Walnut Hills High School. And that took me from seventh to 12th grade. And if you know much about Walnut Hills here locally in Cincinnati, um, it's widely regarded. And, uh, for success. The first week there, all I heard about was college in seventh grade. And I came home and I said to my mom, I said, what's this college thing? And she laughed and she said, well, nobody in our family's ever been to college.

Shenan Murphy: (05:01)
And it's very expensive, and we don't know if you can get there. But through that journey, I learned about college. And then through sports, I had a lot of scholarship offers and I had a lot of opportunities. I had a chance to play pro baseball outta high school. And I had a great mentor came over before the draft named Joe Hayden, and Joe told my mom, don't let him do that. Let him go to college, and college will lead him through his life. And pro baseball probably will not, he's not that good. So that shattered my dream as a 17-year-old. But what that did do is it, uh, solidified my chance to be a first gen college student. Yeah. And I started at Ball State for two years, and then I transferred back here my junior year. And that story was a fun one. Um, I came back and I was working out here during winter break at UC to a number of people who played baseball here.

Shenan Murphy: (05:46)
And I literally made the decision to transfer UC within about 24 hours. And I went home and told my mom I was gonna transfer to uc. And she said, how are we gonna pay for this? And I said, well, they're giving me a scholarship. I did have a Pell Grant at the time. So that gives you a little bit of a indication of where our family's finances were. And through that experience, I came to UC. And UC had a number of coaches and professors that helped me. But as a first gen college student, it was that journey through a great high school was at journey then through athletics, and then mentors who really exposed me to college. And one of the things I want to give back to is that first gen. 'cause a lot of people just don't know. And once you give that knowledge to kids, they can excel.

Marianne Lewis: (06:27)
With that comment. Shenan, I think about the contributions. I mean, it's so part of why you're being honored at this dinner, you think about your own experience, and then I, I watch how you philanthropically through service make such a difference in the city. Could you share a little bit about how you make decisions to contribute to the city and beyond?

Shenan Murphy: (06:47)
Sure. I, first, I have to recognize my great partner role.

Marianne Lewis: (06:49)
Mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (06:50)
We've been married 34 years coming up in August. And, um, together our journey's been fantastic. And we are very purposeful what we're trying to do. And there's a lot of great people and a lot of great institutions in this town to support. We focus on education and youth, and we think that's important to do. Uh, one of my good mentors does a great speech. He talks about time and treasures. And, um, time is hard for people to give. Treasures are easy. Everybody can write a check and be fortunate to do that. But I think the time is what makes a difference. And that's time makes an impact on, on kids, makes an impact on young people, makes an impact on organizations. So Melissa and I, um, have really tried to give a lot of our time as well as our treasures.

Shenan Murphy: (07:34)
And I think that has been far more rewarding than any check we've ever written. Um, you and I talked about, oh, we did the dinner we hosted for the first gen students at our house, and we were scheduled to conclude that at 9:00 PM and it went to 11:15, 11:30. That was one of the greatest nights we had. And it just, you know, it reflective of what we like to do and how we do it. And again, the energy in that room with those 13 students and the conversations and everything else just made us, uh, more motivated to try to do additional things as we, as we move forward.

Marianne Lewis: (08:04)
And it being, I mean, you and I have said this before, but it does mean so much to hear your personal story because I think those, those kids need to see that there's a pathway that it can be them too.

Shenan Murphy: (08:16)
Yeah. We talked a lot of that night about failure, and we talked a lot of things. They asked, um, how I came to, you know, own the company and do things like that being first gen. And my personal story coming from not much. And, uh, that's worth talking about. 'cause you know, I was at the company for 10 years and then our company was sold. Uh, the residential side was sold to, uh, what is now Coldwell Banker, west Shell. And there were a number of people sitting around. They said, well, you, you know, what are we gonna do the commercial division, the property management division of West Shell? How are we gonna handle this? And, um, we were all at a happy hour, probably too many beers along the way. And I said, well, why don't we buy it? I was 30, 31 years old, and nobody really took it seriously.

Shenan Murphy: (08:57)
And I went to my father-in-law at the time and presented him with the idea, and he said, well, to go do a business plan. So I had never done a business plan . And so I ran down the Hyde Park Library, uh, put a business plan together, presented to him, uh, this business plan a week later. And he read the first two pages, and he looked at me, he said, well, you've never done a business plan before . And part of that is I'm dyslexic. Uh, so having dyslexia, you know, my writing skills and spelling could be a little bit, uh, off at times. 'cause I don't have the back then didn't have the advantage of technology that we have today to help. And so, uh, he, he counseled me and I presented it to a group of seven people at the company. And, um, we started a, a journey to, to buy it.

Shenan Murphy: (09:39)
And, um, we did buy it in 2000 at age 32, 33. And, uh, risked everything survived, uh, 9/11 terror tragedy in our, our world. And we served dot com business. And so we learned a lot of lessons, but to, to go do that and to think about failing and think about the risk associated with that, uh, I talked a lot to the first gen students about that. I said, keep pushing forward. Keep acquiring knowledge. You're gonna fail. You're gonna have failures, and don't let 'em hold you back. Um, you know, I have a say in let it go, and you have to let things go in life. And I think that gets a lot back to sports. I'm probably, uh, a lot better in my mind today than I actually was as a, as a player. But I had a lot of failures in sports. And you can't dwell on 'em. You have to move forward. And, um, I think that's the biggest thing about failure. A lot of people sometimes get stuck with it. And I think when you're a first gen student, there's a lot of pressures on you.

Marianne Lewis: (10:31)
Mm-hmm.

Shenan Murphy: (10:31)
And if you don't have a good support system to reassure you to guilt, to build that self-esteem, that's what we really can do for youth and to help these young men and women, you know, do great things.

Marianne Lewis: (10:42)
Oh, I, I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. Shenan, you've talked about, um, the value of failures. I'd like to talk a little bit about more the value of challenges and overcoming those challenges. Could you share a little bit about an experience or your approach to making the most of challenges?

Shenan Murphy: (11:00)
Yeah. What comes to mind is, um, uh, being dyslexic and not knowing I was dyslexic until, uh, really in my adult life and the challenges that presented as I reflected on it, uh, through the days of high school and college, and probably early in business. And, uh, I figured I was dyslexic through, uh, my wife, who, we have a son who's dyslexic, and we recognized at an early age he was having some challenges. And through her training, uh, she identified that. And she looked at me one night and said, you're dyslexic. And I said, no, of course, I'm not . And so, uh, that led to some, uh, exploration of what dyslexia is all about. And, uh, as I've learned, uh, she said, you're a terrible speller. Uh, you do great math in your head, but not on paper. And you invert numbers. And I said all the classic signs, if you will.

Shenan Murphy: (11:47)
And as I reflected on it, um, uh, obviously I mentioned I played college baseball here at the University of Cincinnati, and my SAT scores coming outta Walnut Hills were so bad. Uh, I would not have qualified under today's NCAA requirements to play.

Marianne Lewis: (12:01)
Wow.

Shenan Murphy: (12:01)
Um, I graduated, not top of my class at Walnut, but towards the bottom. And nobody ever shared with me that I was dyslexic, but I knew. And as I've studied it, one of the, uh, exciting things about it, I think a lot of my entrepreneurship, a lot of my creation, a lot of the drive that I have are classic dyslexic traits. And if you look at some of the visionaries, uh, going through Albert Einstein, Richard Branson, Henry Winkler, and please note, I'm not comparing myself to any of those gentlemen, but all shared dyslexia. And when it does, it allows you to see a lot of strategy.

Shenan Murphy: (12:35)
It allows you to see the end game pretty quickly. Mm-hmm . And through my leadership training and understanding of my own personal challenges with dyslexia, uh, I've come to learn those are my strengths. Mm-hmm . And, and I've also come to learn where my weaknesses are to try to limit those failures that I would have. And, uh, looking at a balance sheet, reading a financial statement can be a bit of a challenge. And so I had to learn different techniques being dyslexic that you may, uh, already know as an accounting or finance major. So I think dyslexia, um, for me, once I understood it, was really, uh, turned into an inspiration.

Marianne Lewis: (13:08)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (13:09)
And, and through my life, it was something I knew that was there that I was failing at, but I could understand why didn't feel as smart as other kids, maybe didn't feel as confident as other kids. I, I kind of understood the end game, but I could, it was a struggle to get there. So I think, uh, uh, you know, as we go through our adult life, continuing to learn, continue to know that we all have, uh, things to overcome. It's, it's always a continuation. And being dyslexic is, uh, and learning that in my adult life has been an inspiration. And that's part of some of the things that, uh, has driven me through the career.

Marianne Lewis: (13:43)
Thank you. And thank you for sharing that. Sure. You're such a, a wonderful example of that combination of real estate, entrepreneurship and leadership. Right. And putting those three things together. I, I wonder if you could lean a bit, lean in a bit more to the real estate side, and what do you see as the power of real estate and the value? This is a great real estate community, um, and it, it's, it's leaders such as you that make the most of it. But I don't know that everybody always thinks about real estate as the engine of a community the way, the way I think you do.

Shenan Murphy: (14:17)
Well, it, it, it's very interesting. You know, when you think about businesses and you think about housing and you think about medical, you know, real estate's part of everything, you know, and, uh, AI's, uh, all the buzz right now, we're all talking about ai, but AI need someplace. They need, they need buildings to house these computers. They need energy to power the computers and real estate's, uh, always been interesting because it's always a component of a conversation, uh, both in business development, it can change communities. And you look at some of the good work that's going on right now in our community with, I think, uh, here at the university, student housing, you know, oh, you all have done a phenomenal job transitioning this university and the enrollment reflects it, but where are we gonna put all these, these young people? And we're working on that.

Shenan Murphy: (14:59)
We're solving that. And that's positive. Market rate housing. You know, as you go through the area that we've been, we have to do more market rate heading some of the work the port authorities others are doing in town to address those issues. It, it's really important stuff. Um, and then there's the commercial side that I'm involved in.

Marianne Lewis: (15:15)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (15:15)
Which, uh, goes up and down, uh, continues to grow. And I think one of the things that's been great about Cincinnati is we have a very engaged community and a very sharing community. Uh, one of the things that hold us back though, is we also, sometimes it's not in our backyard. We're not, we're not, we don't have enough vision. We need to get out of our comfort zone a little more. And, uh, one of my hopes would be, and one of the things I'm working on is I'd love to see our friends in northern Kentucky, our friends in Cincinnati, our friends in Mason, our friends in West Chester come together as a region.

Marianne Lewis: (15:43)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (15:44)
Because in our world, we compete regionally with our clients. And we're seeing Cincinnati, um, be a little bit divided. And I think the challenge for us is to, you know, use all this energy that we have, all this good knowledge that we have, and really pull this together. And, and I think that will be the catalyst for our region, hopefully over the next 30 to 50 years if we can do that. And, and I know there's a number of people working on that, and I'm excited to be part of that. And I think that'll be a big real estate story in what it does for our region, what it does for this university, what it does for the other universities. And that'll be a great opportunity, I think, for, for our community to lean into that as real estate professionals and provide our knowledge and help push people to, to think about that differently.

Marianne Lewis: (16:27)
In that vein, I'd love to hear how you've been working with the, the Center for Real Estate, the real estate center here at UC. I know you've had such a good close relationship, maybe both looking backwards, what has that role been for you and how do you see that value, but also looking forwards to your point of how do we bring people together? This is, this is an important time to do just that.

Shenan Murphy: (16:51)
Well, I think the Real Estate Center, um, is pretty unique. And Dean Lewis, as you know, I probably did a little preparation for this, this podcast. And I talked to some young people and I talked to some old people about the real estate center, and I said, Hey, I'm gonna get asked this question. Tell me your thoughts. So a little bit of this plagiarism. So, um, the younger people who've graduated recently, and I'd say that in the last 10 years, all had some common themes, which were incredible. And they said the Real Estate Center has given them an opportunity to think about an area of business and life that otherwise hasn't been on their radar. And it exposed them, the programs that you're offering, the programs that we're, we're putting together, both in these buildings and outside through the volunteers. Exposed 'em to finance, exposed 'em to development, expose 'em to housing, exposed 'em to a lot of different things.

Shenan Murphy: (17:44)
And it was interesting to see that continuity with the group of young people, that they were very excited and reflective on all the different aspects they got to, to experience to the real estate center. And talking to the, the next generation, I'll say the older generation, um, there are a number of us who understand and are so thankful for what real estate has done for our careers and what this center has done and grown along the way. And everybody's excited to give back, and everybody's excited to participate. And there's great collaboration. And you know, I say in my business, and I say in our family, it takes a village, right? And I think the village here in Greater Cincinnati, the village around the Real Estate Center, because of the good work that's been done so consistently over the years, and the growth so consistently going back to Norm Miller, you know.

Marianne Lewis: (18:31)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (18:31)
Where he started.

Marianne Lewis: (18:32)
Oh, absolutely.

Shenan Murphy: (18:32)
And, and it's been really good. So I think the real estate center means a lot of things. Um, you can get into the statistics on how many internships are there, and how many co-op opportunities, and how many great trips to go see places like recently London and, you know, cities like Houston and New York, and understand. And that gets these, you know, our next level of leaders and developers and dreamers, that gets them a chance to go see other things. And I hope they, they, you know, when they go away, they come back.

Marianne Lewis: (18:59)
mm-hmm .

(18:59)
And I hope we retain some of them, as we know that's a challenge. But I think the Real Estate Center has, uh, grown and developed and it's, it's, it's amazing to see the work. And I, and I think some of the best work is yet still ahead.

Marianne Lewis: (19:10)
Mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (19:11)
I think, is real estate is understood and as a career and the opportunities are there, and with your leadership and the different folks involved, I think the real estate center's gonna do nothing but get stronger.

Marianne Lewis: (19:24)
I absolutely see that potential. And I think in getting stronger, it goes right in parallel with our region. And how do we make sure that we are, we are integral to the work that needs to be done. I, I mean, I think that that links to the way that you and others in the center mentor that next generation. Um, as you said, you know, we, we do plenty with taking wonderful students to places like Houston and, and Chicago and London, et cetera. And we see this remarkable boomerang. So even if they don't stay initially, oh, they come back. I mean, this is such a great community, and I love that. Could you talk a little bit about your mentoring? I know you take that seriously and you work closely with Next Generation leaders.

Shenan Murphy: (20:06)
Y yeah. You know, the mentoring for me, um, is selfish. I get so much out of it, um, to be honest about it. And, and I, I go back to again, you know, my life has been incredibly blessed. And to have the people who leaned into me for no reason, you know, and, and no return or no expectation. And it's, it's truly been incredible. And it's been that way. I've been so blessed. And as I've raised my family, and, and Melissa feels the same way, you know, it's such an fun, easy thing to do. And as we talk to all the different people, we've been fortunate to share, uh, again, we get so much out of it. And, you know, one of the things we talk about is what do, what do we do in mentorship? What are you trying to talk to people about?

Shenan Murphy: (20:48)
And, and it's to help these young kids, like for me, where I had people leaning at me and say, be prepared when you talk to somebody, you know, do, do a little homework, have some skills, talk to 'em about some of the soft skills of looking people in the eye, shaking their hands. And a lot of young kids don't know, and they're afraid to ask. And I think that through the mentoring we've been able to do, and the mentoring I've been able to do, is to build that trust and allow them to ask the difficult questions. And I had that advantage through coaches. I had that advantage through some really key teachers who knew my situation, and they leaned in 'cause they were just trying to help a young person, uh, get ahead in life. And that I trusted him at a point in my life when I probably didn't have a lot of trust in, in adults.

Shenan Murphy: (21:29)
And that trust, I think if you can establish that as a mentor, uh, it leads to a lot. There's, people get into the first part of mentorship, I think, and you get asked a mentor because of your success. You've had success in whatever you've done. So therefore people want you to give back. But I think that once you start to develop the trust with the young people, and you understand that, and you let them tell their story first, it's really important to get that going. And then you can share some of the, some of the things that you think you've learned along the way. And, and I always encourage 'em that, Hey, it's their recipe. It's not mine or any other mentors, and you gotta take a little bit of the salt. I'm giving you a little bit of the pepper, the mentor other mentors are giving you and create your own ingredients.

Marianne Lewis: (22:07)
Yeah, absolutely.

Shenan Murphy: (22:07)
And make it your life. And, and so through that, uh, again, I have so much fun doing it. And, um, you know, I think I was looking at a list. We've had over 45 interns come through our company in the time, and that's outstanding and it's fun. And we spend, uh, real time with them, and we put 'em through a class called Foundations of Success. And a couple of the young people I was talking to about this, uh, podcast, you know, said, you know, that program really impacted their lives. And it really opened their eyes to things. And I'm thankful to a lot of the professionals that work in our company that take the time to lean into it and not just, not just me. Yeah.

Marianne Lewis: (22:43)
I think the, the demonstration of care in that program that you provide, but also in your personal, it goes so far that pe that a young person sees that you care enough to be listening, because then there are also gonna be more open to tough feedback. I mean, you talked about the value of failing. I think that even in the soft skills, it's important that a mentor can say, Hey, you know, that that handshake wasn't quite what it needed to be. You're not quite looking at me. And the soft skills have, have lost some things, I think in recent years that we're really working hard. But it, it takes mentors and others for them to see, oh, I get it. And start to feel that comfort to lean in.

Shenan Murphy: (23:22)
Yeah. And social media.

Marianne Lewis: (23:23)
Absolutely.

Shenan Murphy: (23:23)
And absolutely electronics. Um, it's hard. Uh, I, you know, and I'm probably considered a dinosaur in some, some respects, but I'll say, well, did you talk to that person? Yeah. And then I have to qualify that question with, was that a text, an email, or did you actually communicate and talk? And in our business, it's all about relationships. Yes. And it's about building trust. And with social media, so many young people refuse or struggle or are perhaps not confident to get on the phone or go to a networking event or go. And I think those are some of the things in the mentorship that we can share.

Marianne Lewis: (23:56)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (23:56)
That at the end of the day, once you get past the emails, you, it's gonna take a personal relationship to advance whatever your agenda might be, whether that's professionally or, or personally. And so often with the, the social media, um, those young people have not been trained. And, and it's been hard. Um, but I think that's an area that we can continue as mentors to help people with and grow their confidence and say, you know, it's okay. You know, don't, don't hide behind that text . Mm-hmm.

Marianne Lewis: (24:23)
Mm-hmm. No, I appreciate that kind of push. It matters so much. Um, I, I, I would love you to say a little bit more about the entrepreneurship side of you and real estate, because we, we take it very seriously that we wanna build an entrepreneurial mindset, really foster that entrepreneurial spirit. What does that mean to you?

Shenan Murphy: (24:44)
Um, you know, thinking about that question, it, it's, thank you. It's something I don't really think about on a day-to-day basis. I just have kind of done it my whole life. And I think initially it was started because of economic need. I needed to make money. And, uh, as I've shared with people, I would literally, um, skip school to shovel snow. And I used to love when it snowed because I could go make a buck. And that's, that's what I did. And growing up the way I did, I really didn't have a lot of, uh, xx cash. So any chance you could get to make money, I, I laugh. Uh, the house that I now live in, uh, I used to have a little business in high school. We started, we had 40 kids working by our senior year that we would, we called it catering, but it wasn't really catering, it was cleaning dishes and.

Marianne Lewis: (25:27)
Oh, that's great.

Shenan Murphy: (25:28)
Attending. That's great. And so that was, you know, one of the first businesses I started my sophomore in high school. Um, I had a boat cleaning business that I had in college where I had college athletes and pool hated a place called Four Seasons here. And we had probably 25 people. And we didn't know that to get your boat cleaned, uh, most professionals would charge 125. We would do it for $25.

Shenan Murphy: (25:47)
So, uh, the economics weren't great on that, but we, we had jobs and we made some beer money along the way. Um, and then I guess, you know, entrepreneurship to me has been just the ability to control my destiny, uh, to control and create and help myself and others achieve. And along the way, not only, you know, my, my 35 years, uh, in real estate have all been at the same company along the way, though, uh, we started in MBE 10 years ago, uh, with two young people.

Shenan Murphy: (26:15)
And, uh, we funded it. We, uh, nurtured them in our office space for two years, and they're out doing great things today. Oh, that's great. And we didn't take a lot of credit for that. And people are like, why didn't you talk about that? Why wasn't that in a business career? MBEs are hot things in the last decade, but it's, again, it's reflective. Our, I think the team we have and what our views are is that entrepreneurship's to help others achieve and to help yourself achieve. And along the way, there are rewards.

Marianne Lewis: (26:37)
Mm-hmm.

Shenan Murphy: (26:37)
But there's also some great failures we've had. Absolutely. Um, it's rest. We've built, uh, a real estate holding company called 6 4 3 Capital of which we owned a number of commercial properties. We had a technology business we started in 2008. Um, that, that business would start out of just need from property management side of the business.

Marianne Lewis: (26:55)
Mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (26:56)
So I think it's looking at a problem, trying to solve it, tr trying come up with something that's a solution that's not readily available, and apply some knowledge to it, like we've talked about. Know that you're gonna fail along the way, and, um, hopefully put the right team together to, to help build.

Marianne Lewis: (27:10)
mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (27:11)
And, and give somebody a chance. Uh, the businesses, I've been fortunate to grow. Uh, I've had great team members and I've had great men and women who have shared a vision of trust, shared a vision of openness, and are willing to go do that. And through that, some of the different businesses we've created, and I think we'll create, I'm excited for the next 10 years. Some of the things I'm doing now, um, I think, we'll, we will further help that entrepreneurship spirit. And I'm not even sure what it means. I, I wrote down, I probably need to take a few classes in entrepreneurship from, from the, we've got Univers University,

Marianne Lewis: (27:42)
we got some.

Shenan Murphy: (27:42)
and so that I could, uh, really define that a little better.

Marianne Lewis: (27:46)
Uh, you know, I, I I lo I love that. And, and I do know that you continue to explore, you know, we say our, our mantra here at Lindner is that we empower business problem solving and pr business problem solvers. And you're such a model of that. And entrepreneurs, that's what you do. You see a problem, you start to think about, okay, how would I fill that gap? Building the expertise and the team to get there? And you're always taking risks, but how do you make them calculated? How do you, you know, innovate and really think creatively and collaboratively? And I think you do that in such interesting ways. And I, I love your creative spirit, um, your ability to navigate uncertainty, which is also a big part of entrepreneurship. And it's, it is empowering to do that. You, for you personally, but also I think for the city, for the wonderful students. You said, what 45 have been involved. That's fantastic.

Shenan Murphy: (28:38)
Yeah. And we have a number of those Bearcats that went on to take jobs with us. I think we have over 20 Bearcats employed. So the Crosstown Shootout becomes quite a thing in our office for sure. We have a number of Xavier students as well, you know, on entrepreneurship. I'd, I'd say a couple more things on that, that I think are worth noting. Um, all great companies, and I think great entrepreneurs have good processes, uh, that are well thought out and can be applied across many things. One of the, I think, important things in, in that is to question and to ask the hard questions. And I think a lot of, uh, my journey, uh, along the way is to ask challenging questions, to look at those problems and say, why is this happening? And to bring up those conversations that maybe make some other people in the room uncomfortable mm-hmm .

Shenan Murphy: (29:18)
And, um, through that you eventually get trust with people, but it can be hard to push through that. And I think entrepreneurs do a really good job of questioning the norm and looking for those alternative solutions. And, and that courage to do that, uh, that personal risk to put your opinion out there, I think is something that young people, uh, really need to hear more about as they, they go out and take the risk. 'cause they always think about, I'm gonna design the next app, the next company, I'm gonna get paid. I'm gonna do that. But sometimes you have to ask some really difficult questions, uh, about things. And I think that the more you can do that and do that in a respectful way, a polite way, and do it in consistent way, that's one of the processes we employ to challenge the norm a little bit and try to do things differently.

Marianne Lewis: (30:02)
I think you just taught me something really important there. I appreciate that, Shenan. I mean, that it's not just any problems that you're solving. I mean, you're really digging in to what is that problem? What's the core? I mean, that's where asking the tough questions, maybe getting some different views on it, and really digging deeper. You're not just building a better mouse trap. You're actually trying to figure out what's the mousetrap for and what is, what needs to be done. And I think that does open up new possibilities. That's exciting.

Shenan Murphy: (30:27)
Absolutely. Yeah. And a lot of times as a leader, sometimes it problems you and you have to look in the mirror.

Marianne Lewis: (30:32)
Absolutely. And you have to be willing to do that. I think that's a really good point.

Marianne Lewis: (30:34)
Shenan, we're so excited to, to celebrate you at the annual dinner. I, I mean, I would love you to just share a little bit about what does it mean to be receiving the Distinguished Real Estate Service award to you?

Shenan Murphy: (30:49)
Well, first of all, very surprised. And again, very, very thankful. Um, I, I did not expect this. And, uh, I'm very, very thankful to be recognized. 'cause, um, it has caused me to take a step back and reflect on what you do. 'cause um, you get up every day, just go do it. And this award has, um, allowed me to, to pause a bit and my family to pause and, uh, others around me, my team, to pause. And kind of, the comments have been overwhelming. I've been shocked. And sometimes you, you don't know what your work is doing or who it's touching, and that's obviously why we don't do the work. But it's nice to take this pause and, and to be recognized and, and the feedback along the way. I'm so thankful for. I'm thankful to be in the position to have done it. I'm excited about June 11th. I think that'll be fun. Um, I've promised Carl I'll keep my speech under an hour. , I'm just kidding. But I think, you know, it's, it's been one, uh, of humility. It's been one of recognition, and it's been one of just an opportunity to say thank you back to the university, and thank you back to so many people who've helped me on this journey. And I'm just, again, thankful that I could influence some people along the way.

Marianne Lewis: (32:01)
Well, I'm glad it's provided an opportunity for you to reflect. It's a huge opportunity for us to just appreciate you, to recognize the inspiration that you've provided from your time here at uc and your ability to just make the most of what you have, but also to reach out and find more opportunities and to create opportunities for yourself and for others. And I'm, I'm so grateful for you, Shenan, and looking forward to that night as well. Thank you for all you do for this university, for the city, and for the young people whose lives you touch. It means a great deal.

Shenan Murphy: (32:35)
Thank you very much. Excited for it. Looking forward to doing more. Thank you.

Grant Freking: (32:40)
Thanks to Dean Marianne Lewis and Shenan Murphy for appearing on this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. For more information on UC Real Estate Center, visit business.uc.edu/realestate. That's business.uc.edu/realestate. You can listen to Bearcats Mean Business on Apple Podcasts and on YouTube in addition to Spotify. Thanks for tuning in.