Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome the Bearcats Mean business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's, Carl h Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world, come together, tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode. All right. So Dustin, thank you for being here. You are the CEO of two companies, ranger Steel and Craft force. How do you have the bandwidth to head two companies and is there a relationship between the two organizations?

Dustin Grutza: (00:43)
There is a relationship that makes it a lot easier to have the bandwidth, thankfully, but, um, you know, managing time that, that is the biggest thing that I have to, uh, factor in, helped. I can imagine. I've, yeah, I've helped from a lot of my team members in doing so, and have a lot of leaders that I have in positions that can take care of what they need to do. So a big part of that is not just, um, there's, there is my time management, but my time management and, um, delegating the right things, having the right team members on board so that it's not all on me at all. I, I would never say that being a CEO, if you do not have a good team, you're not gonna have a good company. And, uh, I totally, I'm thankful for the team that I do have and all the work that they're able to do because without 'em it would not happen.

Grant Freking: (01:28)
Ranger is something that was founded by your parents, correct?

Dustin Grutza: (01:31)
Yes, it was actually, we are in our 30th year, so 30 years going strong. I'd say I kind of took over about 10 years ago as far as, uh, really I came to the business 15, but okay. About 10 years ago, really started taking it over and pushing things and then, um, got named CEO last year. And so, uh, we're trying to really take things to the next level.

Grant Freking: (01:51)
What role has that played in your own separate entrepreneurial journey, which we'll kind of get to your other individual contributions and companies, but what is role has like kind of growing up in the family business played in that?

Dustin Grutza: (02:01)
I think it's played, played a large role. You know, when seeing my parents start their business, kind of go from my mom working in a daycare, um, yeah, having about 40 kids and owning a daycare, working at nights, doing bookkeeping. As my dad was starting a company, him and a couple other guys and some trucks, um, pushing things on the heavy industrial side, you know, trying to kind of live that American dream. To now we have like 24 trucks and, you know, Freightliners and Cranes and all the different stuff. And kind of seeing that growth as I was, uh, I think they started when I was, what, 10 years old? Yeah. So seeing that, um, change not just, um, the work that they're putting into it, working day and night, but also, uh, how that impacted, uh, what they're able to do outside of work and, uh, be involved in different things. So I think seeing that, and then I was naturally kind of brought into leadership roles my whole life, uh, especially when you're young athletics, right? As a point point guard or I was a quarterback, I just kind of fell into these like leadership roles. So it only felt right. I think that in my stepping stones as working and moving through things that, that was, I was bound to become , A CEO or in some sort of a leadership role in my life. Yeah, there's

Grant Freking: (03:14)
Like a tone of fulfillment. I can sense in your voice. Were you inspired by your parents in, in kind of witnessing this?

Dustin Grutza: (03:20)
A thousand percent. I mean, they are workers like . My dad, like if they're going on vacation to go sit on a beach, they're gonna sit on the beach for a little bit, but they're gonna be walking, they're gonna be doing stuff. Yeah. My dad's looking for work. He loves farming, you know, he is got, he's still involved very heavily at Ranger, but loves to do something else all the time. It's the same with my mom. And so seeing that attitude, that mentality, that work ethic, uh, through my life, I mean, I think it helped instill the grit in me in the same way. And, uh, when I was playing sports here at uc, it was kind of the same thing. You know, I wasn't the biggest guy, I wasn't the fastest guy. Um, but I was starting and pushing in, in a leadership role the whole time because of that. You know, it's like you want it and go work for it.

Grant Freking: (04:03)
Right. How do you compare and contrast the running the two companies as, as we've talked about, ranger as a family business that you grew up with and in craft force with something that you founded years ago. So how do you compare and contrast the two?

Dustin Grutza: (04:17)
Um, very different and, um, many ways. Okay. I'll start by talking about like my own company, right? So in starting at craft force and starting my own thing, um, I am able to instill a lot of the practices or leadership qualities, uh, that I think are the most important in how we communicate and how we do a lot of our, our work, right? So by doing that, I have more influence, and I wouldn't say control it, but have I am able to build it from the ground up. With my parents' business, they didn't have a lot of that background. They were grinding and pushing and growing and also in a different time. And so that company grew and was expanding, but I think there was less of that. Let's set up the structure. Let's make sure we have the right pieces in place so that we can grow more.

Dustin Grutza: (05:03)
It was more like grow and figure it out in a lot of ways. And so, which is great, and that's how you do, that's how you do businesses. Um, but, um, I think with that, uh, coming into a family business, I think a lot of people who have family businesses can kind of relate as you are growing or trying to make, uh, changes that might be for the better. It's a little more difficult because you need to get everybody on board, right? And, um, as you're doing that and changing a way we're creatures of habit, uh, you know, creatures of routine making those changes are a little bit more difficult, uh, midway through. So, um, that's been some of the challenges, but also a way that I think I've seen successes of certain things of craft force and certain things that we've tried that haven't worked. But by having that smaller company that've started from the beginning that we've kind of built this around, I've been able to instill some of those practices into Ranger, which has helped it, uh, as it's been really growing over the past few years.

Grant Freking: (06:01)
Let's, let's wind the clock back even a little bit more. Why did you wanna get your business education at Lindner and the University of Cincinnati?

Dustin Grutza: (06:09)
Uh, you know, this is a great school. Uh, uh, university of Cincinnati was close to home. Um, a lot of choosing Cincinnati had to do with sports at that time, right? Um, so I was coming here and actually the engineering school had a big part too. I was looking at how, how do I find a degree that kind of combines business and engineering. Okay. And, um, I thought at first I was just gonna get my mechanical engineering degree and then get a MBA afterwards. I was kind of the, the game plan. But, um, as you get going, you realize if you're gonna be a full-time, uh, athlete and play quarterback, you may not have time for co-ops and other, uh, pieces of that puzzle, uh, related to the engineering side. But on the business side, I could do a lot of, uh, the other programs and kind you could co-op at different times or summer or work for other entities.

Dustin Grutza: (06:54)
So it worked out as a better option. They had a, a combined degree for me and, uh, but choosing, choosing University of Cincinnati had to do with, um, it's great school. Um, loved the city of Cincinnati. It was close to home. Parents would be able to come watch me play and do all those different things. But the school itself had all the pluses and I saw the ways that the co-op program brought out, uh, just enabled you to get in touch with the city and help the city grow. And I think that's still the case. So many people who go through the co-op program, they find their university or their find, they find their, their landing, um, position or, or company, I should say, their career through that co-op program and continue it from there.

Grant Freking: (07:38)
Right. We touched on leadership a little bit earlier, um, and I want to revisit that. You mentioned being the quarterback and point guard growing up, and you were the quarterback of the football team here at uc. How did being the quarterback influence your views on leadership and culture and team building and any, is, how much of that is translatable to what you do now?

Dustin Grutza: (08:00)
Uh, all, all of it. I mean, in every way. I, I think, I think sports, um, transfers into business very easily, um, because of coaches and pushing things and, and how, uh, you have to have leaders within, especially in football leaders within each division, right? You have a linebacker, uh, core. You have safeties and defensive backs. You have offensive line, you have quarterbacks, receivers, you have these different segments, but you need a leader within each one of those. And then you need a leader for the whole offense and leader for the whole defense and a leader on the field for the whole team, you know, the captains, and then you need the coach. You have your coaches who are the leaders. And so you have to have that same structure in business. In order to be really successful, you need leaders at all areas. So like when I, looking at the construction business, you have leaders in, obviously your executive, your finance, your operations off the operations.

Dustin Grutza: (08:53)
You may have different divisions that someone needs to be leading those divisions, right? And then all the way to the job that you're doing, uh, you get down to a four man crew pushing a job. Maybe they're building a building, right? You need someone leading that crew helping make sure everything's going the right way. And so that continuation of leadership and having the same message and the same values, um, you see that through football and that transfers right into business. So I think there is a great collaboration there. Yeah. And so I learned all that through football, I feel like. And so as I went into the workforce, it was like, oh, this all makes so much sense.

Grant Freking: (09:26)
And now that you've ascended to leadership positions in two companies, how do you determine the leaders that are under you? Do they reveal themselves or do you have, do push people? How does that work for you?

Dustin Grutza: (09:38)
Usually they're, they reveal themselves. Okay. They come asking for more, and not just like more money or anything like that. They finish something and they're looking, they have more time. They wanna do more. They have ideas that they bring forward. They start showing themselves as leaders within what they're doing and the group that they're working in. And others go to them for answers, um, and start working with them. And they just kind of, many times they show themselves. But as you're recruiting those types of people, or you're recruiting people in, um, lots of times that's what you're looking for. You're, you're looking for the intangibles of who they are, how they are, uh, more so than their experience. And, oh, I worked on these jobs and I have this, you might find someone who didn't work on at all at a position who has ended up going to run that division because they're willing to learn and they're work hard, and they have what it takes in so many other ways. They just needed some experience at what that is.

Grant Freking: (10:30)
Yeah. Just needed the opportunity. Right? Yeah. You've co-founded several companies since you earned your undergraduate and MBA degrees from Lindner. What voids were you seeking to fill with those startups, and what did you learn from those experiences?

Dustin Grutza: (10:42)
I think at the time I didn't think, uh, ranger was going to be like the landing spot for me. I think family business, I, I knew I, I could go in and help them, help them grow, but I thought, you know, there might be something else that I want to kind of build and put my name to. And, um, those other companies, I had ideas coming out. I did the entrepreneurial, uh, integrals here at College of Business then. And so I was very, I don't know, enamored by the startup world, what it can be. And as I started pushing those different companies, um, I always say fail early. Fail fast. You know, push everything as hard as you can early on. And if it's gonna fail and you see that it's gonna fail, then, then know that that's, that's not the right direction. Either pivot within that company or say, that was fun. That was great effort learned a lot. 'cause that, that's the biggest thing from each of those, uh, companies that I may have partnered into or we started, um, that didn't end up, you know, making it, I learned so much that was applicable to our other companies. Um,

Grant Freking: (11:47)
Yeah. How did, let's push on that further. What are, what are some of the, you know, things when, when you're sitting at your office today and something comes up or whatever, it's some sort of situation like, oh, I remember this from the startup days. What, what are some of the sort of, the examples of that you can think of?

Dustin Grutza: (12:01)
I think one big one would be relationships. Okay. Um, so as you were talking about building, building teams and doing all those different things, that's very important. But, um, sometimes you look at like, what's the core of a business? I take craft force, right? It's staffing in the trades. That's what we do. We find, uh, the best skilled trade workers, um, and we place them on jobs all across the country. And then, you know, that stems up to engineers and to laborers. But that's kind of our main focus. Well, we try to replace it with an app, think, uh, LinkedIn, um, think of those types of apps that are, uh, going to have communication through a network, but we wanted people to be able to hire through it as well. More like indeed, I would say,

Grant Freking: (12:41)
Yeah, create that link.

Dustin Grutza: (12:43)
So we tried to do all this where tech would be us and replace us, but what we found out is like, we're all human, you know? And so certain parts of what we wanna do, deal with and work for work in business has to do with the relationships that we can have. And so we found out that the people, especially who work in the trades, want those relationships. They want someone to help them act as almost like an agent if you were thinking of acting or, you know, the arts, like they're working all day so they don't have time to work on their next job. So they need someone to act in that way and have their best interest and understand what they really want. And so by trying to do that with tech, it didn't fill the void. It, it actually created, um, it made our business much more difficult.

Dustin Grutza: (13:28)
And what we learned, we ended up trashing that whole tech side. We thought that was gonna be our, our leg out. That was gonna be our, you know, multimillion dollar idea. We're gonna a differentiator. Yeah, we're gonna, this, we're gonna be the first in the trades to do this. Other trade companies have tried to do it has not worked either because it's a relationship, um, industry that is very much focused on, uh, on that side of things. So, uh, we learned from that and what our core competency, competency was as a company. So now, as far as how we do staffing and everything else, it's all about relationships. Everything we do, recruiting our clients, everything is all about relationships. And, and so we stay boutique because of that, because we know it's more important for us to have really strong relationships with our clients and the recruiting that we do. All of our different, our workforce versus, um, we don't need those relationships. We're just gonna let tech do it, and we're gonna have win by having the masses.

Grant Freking: (14:21)
Right. Well, speaking of relationships and engagement, you've become involved with uc and Lindner as an alum. Let's begin with your time with the Center for Entrepreneurship, for example, speaking like, uh, just the most recent example that I know of, you were involved with uc Startup Weekend. Yeah. Tell me about that and what other, what other things you're involved with, I guess the Entrepreneurship Center. We'll start there.

Dustin Grutza: (14:43)
Yeah. Um, 1819 Hub, um, we have some great relationships over there. Uh, Kate and some of the crew have kind of really brought us in to, uh, do more and more and, um, love to go over there and speak when I have the chance. But, uh, startup Weekend recently, they brought me in to be kind of a final judge, which was fun, you know, being the shark in the room. But, uh, honestly, the gr I learned just as much doing that because I got to hear what I'd say the youth, you know, I guess I'm getting old now, but, uh, uh, everyone here at the university sees as the greatest problems and what, what in our world that they need to solve, that they're trying to solve with apps or whatever it may be, right? The businesses that they see we need in our world in order to handle those, those problems. And so for me, understanding what problems they see versus what I might've thought was completely different. So I learned so much about that. And then also got to see how applications of, um, putting decks together, market research, how ai, uh, connects to all this. Now I got to see how the students are able to do that in different ways. And, um, it was, like I said, it was a learning experience on my side, but also great to see how far along the students are going through this university.

Grant Freking: (16:03)
So what are, what were some of your more specific takeaways in, in dealing with students? What are they coming to you for advice for? I guess maybe specifically as a business owner?

Dustin Grutza: (16:12)
Uh, I think they are coming for the leadership. Um, how, how have I been able to build what I have? Um, how do you continue that success and then the network, you know, I think when I spoke a few different times to them or had off conversations, a lot of it was talking about how, how do you get to where you're at and what steps do I need to take? And so I talk a lot about networking, how great Cincinnati is for that. Uh, you have business leaders all over the community who are willing to go have breakfast with you, who are willing to help, uh, who actually care. So you have that, that side of, um, you know, that Midwest, um, niceness approach that Yeah, they're approachable. Yeah. Yeah. That you can actually get a, I get advisors, have mentors, do all the different things that, um, is way more difficult if you're in the Bay or, you know, New York City or something like that.

Dustin Grutza: (17:03)
So I also learned from the businesses that they're trying to build, it was all about relationships. So everyone seems to want to have more phone down personal relationships, which for me, in my business is like exactly what we do as I was talking before. Yeah. So I was able to touch base on that, and I think it connected really well with me. Yeah. You know, that connection of, Hey, we need more time with our phones down. We need to have personal relationships with people, and how do we get there? And I think, I think the youth of, you know, of our world are trying to figure that out right now because they're so tied to their phones.

Grant Freking: (17:44)
Right. What are some of the other involvement you've had, uh, I guess maybe more recently or in the past with, um, Lindner or uc? I think you, you, I know you've been touch involved with athletics too in the past.

Dustin Grutza: (17:54)
Yeah. Uh, I do a lot with athletic athletics. Actually, I'm the head of our, you know, director of our alumni for the football side. Um, I meet with a lot of the team there with athletic department, but on the lender side, I've, uh, stayed in touch with the entrepreneurship, um, team a lot. So like Chuck Matthews. Yep. And I, I'll go speak at some of his classes. I talk with him fairly often. So, um, definitely stay connected through that entrepreneurship side because of all that I do there. All right.

Grant Freking: (18:23)
Let's close with this. Instead of me being a 37-year-old individual, now, I'm, now, I'm 18, what's two maybe bits of advice you'd you'd give to me as if I'm like a bright-eyed, bushy tailed freshman walking through these buildings to sort of like, calm my anxieties and, and kind of help me get on my path to success here at Lindner?

Dustin Grutza: (18:42)
I, I would, I would tell you that everyone has that fear of going up and saying hi first. Mm-hmm. And asking for something and asking for help or talking to someone even, you know, just that first initial contact, right? Sometimes you're nervous and you're like, the part of the hole. Should I do that? Should I, should I stay at this event? Should I do certain things? Yeah. Once you're past that, it's, it's good, but everybody has it. So like saying hi to someone, maybe they're wanting to say hi to you, but they're nervous too, right? But in, in doing that, I say also reaching out to people who you may want to be mentors and all those things. They may want to be a mentor. They may be looking for those opportunities and care, but not know how to do it. So as an 18-year-old, go reach out to as many people as you can. Go, go to breakfasts, go to networking events, go talk to everyone, especially those who you aspire to be like and who you look up to, because they will help you along the way, and that will help shape you and build the confidence that you need to have the success that you're gonna have in your life.

Grant Freking: (19:41)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome the Bearcats Mean business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's, Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world. Come together, tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode, Kyla, so where are you from and what brought you to Lindner and uc?

Kyla Ward: (00:34)
Yeah. I'm from Englewood, Ohio, about 15 minutes away from Dayton. Um, I was always looking to stay close to home, so uc was always a school that was kind of in my, on my radar. Um, I didn't think I was gonna go to uc or ud. I had it in my mind that like, they were too close. You know, I wasn't gonna do it, but I visited with my mom and she was more convinced of the co-op program than I was at first, but I'm learning she's 90%, 99% of the time she's right. So, um, uh, very inspired, I guess is the right word by that program. And kind of seeing the potential that I had there to, uh, really figure out and hone in on what I wanted to do, which I wasn't certain of. And so after I interviewed for Lindner Business Honors, got into that program. I also am a Cincinnati presidential scholar, and that was something that was really important to me is, um, making sure that I had a way to pay for my education. And then the co-op was kind of a bonus on top of that, and it just ended up, uh, being uc. So that ended up being the right choice. Right.

Grant Freking: (01:30)
And we'll get to this in a second, but you've certainly taken full advantage of the co-op program, which is what we love to see. Yeah. You mentioned your mother. Who were the other influences and what are the moments that have shaped who you are today?

Kyla Ward: (01:40)
Yeah, I am definitely a culmination of all of the, like, amazing people that I've learned from. I think mentors are a big thing in my life, even if it's, I mean, as early as, you know, like elementary school teachers and just certain lessons. Um, I try to take, somebody told me once, like if I went through it, I'm, you know, trying to give you this wisdom so you don't have to. So going through with that perspective has been important for me. Um, so yeah, my mom is the biggest one for sure. Um, don't know what I would do without her. She is, I am her mini me in in every sense of the word. Um, but yeah, definitely learning from the lessons that she, that she has had or, you know, like the different, um, the different mentors I've had in my life. So, um, yeah, but I think to name a few, I mean, I know I had some, like middle school teachers, for instance, uh, shout out to Ms. MCC and Miss Isle. If they listen to this, I'm gonna send it to 'em. , no. But, um, yeah, they're just a, like tiny lessons in life from like, as early as okay, helping me figure out kind of what I'm passionate about and honing some of my interests and all the energy I had into, like, actionable items. And I think I've found that through leadership, and that's just because of the guidance that I've gotten from all the incredible people in my life. So, yeah. Right.

Grant Freking: (02:53)
That's great to hear. What was your original plan when you entered college in the Lindner College of Business? And how does that compare to what you're doing now?

Kyla Ward: (03:00)
Yeah. I don't know if I would say I even really had a full plan. I think I had an idea, so, okay. Um, I was kind of all over the place, to be honest, but I thought I was gonna do biomedical engineering at one point, and then I was really called to graphic design. But overall, I just figured out that I wanted to be in a leadership role in some capacity, so I ended up sticking with operations management. I've changed my major a few times since freshman year in terms of what to pair it with, but I finally landed on operations management and a certificate in business analytics. So kind of figuring out, um, you know, the, the leadership aspect in terms of being able to be a project manager or have some HR role is kind of where I'm, where I've ended up right now.

Grant Freking: (03:44)
Yeah. And for any students that might be listening prospective or current, changing your major is completely normal. Yes.

Kyla Ward: (03:49)
Yeah. One or five or six. Right.

Grant Freking: (03:53)
Let's talk about co-ops. You've had plenty. Um, but your first one with Alta fiber mm-hmm . Was the result of some, um, good networking on, on your, your behalf. Talk me through how you got that one. A

Kyla Ward: (04:04)
Hundred percent. Um, I've been just talking to students. I've talked to a couple students this week, some freshmen, and a big thing, especially when it comes to co-op, that I feel like we don't talk enough about just like follow through. Um mm-hmm. I was doing my SWOT analysis project, which we all do freshman year. Um, I had Cincinnati Youth Collaborative, which was an amazing company to work with. I ended up presenting on the same day that Alta Fiber did. So it was Cincinnati Youth Collaborative and Alta Fiber presenting. I wasn't really thinking much about Alta Fiber, that wasn't the group that I was a part of, but I ended up presenting in front of, um, one of their leaders and she took a special interest in me. Um, she's not at the company anymore, but at the time she asked my professor about me and just, uh, you know, if I was looking for any co opportunities, she ended up sending me her information. We met over winter break, and by that spring semester I had had a co-op and was able to network with a few people from just her kind of taking a special interest in me, which was really great.

Grant Freking: (04:58)
Yeah. Aside from gaining the co-op, what else did you take away from that experience about being a professional?

Kyla Ward: (05:04)
Yeah. I, I think freshman year you learn this a lot, especially in the business school. Um, when you're giving presentations and you're networking, you're at the career fair, et cetera, but you, you never know who's watching. Um, you, uh, I think that, you know, kinda goes back to integrity and making sure that you are, even when people aren't watching, you're kind of, um, you know, making sure that you're holding yourself to the same, um, the same standard, if that makes sense. Yeah. So even though, even though I knew that I wasn't necessarily gonna get a co-op with Cincinnati Youth Collaborative, I think the, um, professionalism and, um, passion that I showed for that project definitely stood out to another company. So, yeah, just, you never know who's watching and make sure that you're showing up your best self as much as you can. Right.

Grant Freking: (05:45)
And you may not have been able to get a co-op with CYC, but they may have known someone if they were impressed by you, like, hey, exactly. In the more traditional corporate world or whomever else be like, Hey, you should look to the student, contact her professor and get in touch with her. That, things like that, that can happen too. For sure. How have you grown and been pushed, uh, through the various co-ops you've had? Uh, let's focus maybe on like, I guess the harder skills and we can talk about the soft skills.

Kyla Ward: (06:06)
Yeah. Um, I think when you go into a co-op, you obviously haven't taken all of your classes yet, so there's a lot of learning. I, I know like the first co-op that I had, even the second one I remember every day, like I was learning at least three new things when it came to, um, the different business practices that all these different companies have. And so I think that was definitely one of the harder parts for me in terms of the work. Um, but yeah, I I

Grant Freking: (06:34)
It's a lot coming at you. Yes.

Kyla Ward: (06:36)
Yeah. Yes. It's a lot coming at you, uh, at once for sure.

Grant Freking: (06:39)
Yeah. And then maybe some of like the softer skills. 'cause I know you have a love of love of leadership, and how have you kind of gleaned lessons from your various co-ops? You know, we talked about Alta Fiber, but you also have done co-op with Trimble, Delta Airlines, GE Aerospace, to name just a few here. Yeah. What are some of the other, I guess, maybe soft skills that you've picked up along the way? Mm-hmm

Kyla Ward: (06:57)
. I think in all of those different co-ops that I've had now, kind of being at the end of them, I'm going back to Delta, but I think I've learned one of the soft skills right now I'm working on, like, maintaining that network. Um, the, the relationships that I was able to foster at these different companies or with different bosses, that kind of thing. Um, working now to make sure that I am not leveraging those well. Yeah. Like leveraging those connections. Yeah. And, um, maintaining them, kind of learning how to use that to my advantage right now, um, to make sure that I am keeping those in my back pocket, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Grant Freking: (07:33)
Absolutely. And when you've gone on these co-op learnings, you're, as we mentioned, taking in a lot, how has that translated or fit into your classroom learnings your more traditional classroom learnings here at Lindner?

Kyla Ward: (07:43)
Yeah, I was just, I just got done with my OM 40 76 class, and I think being able to take, which I didn't know at the time, maybe necessarily everything that went into inventory or, you know, working in a warehouse at Trimble at ge, learning the things I'm learning in class, being able to kind of backtrack and apply them to what I saw or what I experienced at these companies has definitely helped my, my learning and just understanding of certain concepts. So that's been nice to, to have for sure in the classroom.

Grant Freking: (08:13)
Yeah. I'm sure on these co-ops who you were put in some tough and moments where you had to maybe show some that, that grit that we talk about here at Lindner. Yeah. How did you handle those moments of being outside your comfort zone and responding to those professionally?

Kyla Ward: (08:26)
A hundred percent. I I think that's another reason I love co-op is because it does put you in some of those maybe uncomfortable or, um, just unfamiliar professional situations that you have to be able to navigate. So, um, I think I've learned a lot, especially from like my internship at ge, how to advocate for myself. You know, if something isn't working or something doesn't feel that it's necessarily right for you, um, how do you advocate for yourself early enough? One, um, not waiting to ask for help. I think that's one of the things that I've, I've definitely learned at these co-ops. Yeah. Um, and how to one, like have proper documentation of the things that, you know, maybe might be going on or being able to, um, being able to take certain experiences and communicate them professionally is something I, I, I learned a lot too. Um, but it ended up working out and all those lessons, I'm so thankful that I experienced before getting into, you know, a full-time role where, you know, if I did experience them, you know, this is a full-time, like co-op, there's less stakes in it. Um, yeah. So you do, you get to make mistakes and, and learn from them before you do, you know, go into something full-time, which I'm really grateful for.

Grant Freking: (09:34)
Right. And to build off that, the co-ops have also allowed you to figure out what you maybe necessarily don't want to do a hundred percent full time too, which is, uh, the benefit of doing the multiple co-ops, um,

Kyla Ward: (09:44)
Yeah. Arguably maybe even more important. Yeah. Right.

Grant Freking: (09:46)
Yeah. Let's transition to some of your, uh, involvement outside co-op, you know, student organizations. I know that's important to you. Yeah. And why, why is it important to you sort of to not only be involved with the student orgs, but to sort of embrace the leadership portion of, of those organizations?

Kyla Ward: (10:00)
Yeah. I love class. I love learning, but I go to school for the connections and for the impact and leadership I'm able to do in, um, the organizations I'm a part of. It's been that way since, um, high school. I was like the cliche class president, um, created the Black student union at my high school, things like that. So it's always been important to me. Um, I was just thinking about this, about how I think representation is a huge part of it, whether it's, um, just making sure that, you know, we're being rep, those who look like me are being represented in rooms and spaces, um, especially in these bigger organizations, um, that you may be a part of. So that's, I think that's why it's the number one reason why it's so important to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (10:44)
Awesome. And, um, unfortunately for you, you're closer to the end of your undergraduate career than you are to the beginning. Yeah. When you think about the purpose or direction you want to have in your career, what comes to mind?

Kyla Ward: (10:56)
Yeah. It's so, it's so crazy that I'm already having to think about this. And I, me and my friends are just talking about like, we'll have full-time job offers in the next year, which is, yeah. Couldn't think about it too much, but , um, I think I have been trying to figure out for so long, like, okay, what do I wanna do? But like, specifically like the work that I wanna do. But I think when I, when I look back at my career, I want to, I, it goes back to the representation piece and the impact, like having, being able to, um, show those who look like me, that like, you are supposed to be in like the room where it happened, for lack of better words, but, um, there's a space for you. There's a space for you to be able to make a difference. I want to look back and be able to say that I had a positive impact on, you know, spaces that maybe I didn't think that I would be able to before. So especially in the corporate world, um, I'm not going into finance or, you know, anything like that. But yeah. Um, being in a corporate space and being able to make a positive impact is in helping others. I just ultimately wanna look back and be able to say that. Right. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (12:02)
And, okay, so instead of talking to me, you're now talking to a prospective Lindner student. Mm-hmm . Some 17, 18-year-old from wherever. Yeah.

Kyla Ward: (12:08)
What's

Grant Freking: (12:09)
Your advice to them?

Kyla Ward: (12:11)
I think the biggest advice I have, I think it just comes off of the, the lessons I've learned in the, uh, past semester. But we co-op is such an incredible opportunity, and I think that, um, Lindner does an amazing job of equipping you with the, uh, skills and the things that you need to be able to complete that co-op. I think my advice to future students is to think about, you know, a job is much more than just like the work that you're doing. Where, where are you working? Like, who are you working with? Thinking about those things. And if it doesn't feel, you know, maybe right in your gut or you. You know, the right path for you. Um, trust that. I, there was a co-op, I worked with the admissions team and a few of, you know, the most influential, and people in my life were saying, yeah, well, maybe this isn't, you know, necessarily exactly what you wanna do.

Kyla Ward: (13:00)
It's, you know, didn't pay as much maybe as your last co-op or, you know, this isn't exactly where your, um, like, it's not gonna be as impactful for your career. Right. Yeah. And if I would've took that advice, I wouldn't have met some of the incredible people that I did, and I wouldn't have had Delta, um, my dream co-op at Delta and be been able to make those connections through, through the college that way. So if there's something and you feel like it's calling you, it might not, you know, necess, whether it's an organization or a co-op, um, if you think it's right for you, definitely take that time. It's, I was thinking about this earlier, it's a weird transition of coming from high school into college where you are, you know, your parents and your, um, your guardians or your role models are who you listen to.

Kyla Ward: (13:42)
Like, they're, they're, they're making majority of the decisions for you. Right. And college is a big transition where you start to do that on your own. And sometimes, um, you grow a lot, especially your freshman year. Sometimes you, um, you change, and some things that others may perceive to be the right thing for you isn't anymore. And so I think that's been, that's a hard lesson that you learn in college, but I would give future students just the, the encouragement to, to trust their gut and go for things that they think is right for them, even, you know, maybe if others, others aren't seeing that. Right.

Grant Freking: (14:18)
Thanks for sharing that. I'll get you outta here on this one. Mm-hmm . In 20 years, what do you think you'll remember the most about your time at Lindner?

Kyla Ward: (14:25)
Yeah, the people. The people. A hundred percent. I have met so many incredible people. Um, whether it's faculty or students in Lindner. I, I never come in and don't see someone that, you know, has a smiling face or has a question about like, how I'm doing or, you know, what's kind of going on in my, you know, personal, professional, um, experience so far. So I think, I think that's definitely what the thing that I'm gonna realize. And I've made some lifelong connections for sure that I will, I hope that I still have in, in 20 years, but just the support, um, that I've gotten at Lindner community-wise is something I'll always remember.

Grant Freking: (15:02)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Meme Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner. We.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome the Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's, Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world, come together. Tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode,

Marianne Lewis: (00:31)
Debbie, it's wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Deborah Hayes: (00:34)
Well, Dean, thank you very much for having me here. I find

Marianne Lewis: (00:37)
Your career journey just remarkable and inspiring. You're currently the president and CEO of the Christ Hospital, and you've risen from a student nurse aid to senior executive. And I've read so much about you and it's more fun to talk to you in person. Your strikes me as a career marked by persistence, adaptability, self-directed learning. I think I'd love to start with was your dream always to become CEO? Is this what you expected to be sitting here now? Well,

Deborah Hayes: (01:08)
No, not at all. And if you would have asked me 38 years ago, would I ever be the CEO of the Christ Hospital Health Network, my answer would've been no, because I, um, loved being a nurse and I never really thought I would do anything other than be a nurse. But then over the course of my time at the Christ Hospital and at the Health Network, I was offered opportunities to do different things. And you know, I'm a non-traditional sort of career person because I had a bachelor's and a master's degree from the University of Cincinnati before I ever went back to nursing school. And, um, the reason that I fell in love with healthcare probably goes back to my childhood when I had a, a crush on a, a physician in a television show called Medical Center Okay. , and loved the whole healthcare, uh, environment back then.

Deborah Hayes: (02:11)
But I worked as a nurse's aide in a local nursing home to pay for my college. And so I grew to love taking care of people and I grew to love the whole healthcare profession there. And so after I got a master's degree, I thought, well, gosh, what am I gonna do with that? And decided to go back into healthcare to, um, really pursue my passion and fell in love with it. And then, um, had an opportunity to go into management mm-hmm . And at the time, I had just delivered my son and thought to myself, well, I don't know if I can do this. And I don't know if I'll like it, but I love doing what I'm doing, so I will try. And if I don't like it, I will go back and return to the ICU, which was my first love the intensive care unit. Right. And I ended up loving that experience because I got to see the impact that you could make on more than just the patient you were taking care of. And I watched a team flourish in some really difficult times, and we became very, very successful. And so that's really how my entire management career started.

Marianne Lewis: (03:24)
I think it's fascinating, Debbie, as you even, I'm hearing the way you're talking about it, you've, your, your career has been one of breadth as well as depth in the the health system. I mean, from IT to operations to, uh, and I've, you and I have spoken about this once before, but when I, I asked how you, you expanded to get so much, you built such credibility in your leadership by having seen all the different elements. You told me something about you going in when you first went into it that you knew enough to be dangerous, why'd you take the job? And then how did you learn through it? Those are big changes,

Deborah Hayes: (04:03)
Right? Well, you know, and I, I think, um, as a leader, what I've learned is that, um, a job description is one thing, and what the job actually is is quite another. And so even when I became the chief nursing officer, right, I had a lot to learn. I was a director and then moved into an executive position. And I did that for about 13 years. And I learned something every single day, which is part of the beauty of being able to have different experiences. And, um, when I took over as the Chief Information Officer, it was, uh, in a very interesting time in the health system. And there was a need. And I thought to myself, well, I know enough because I've worked with some of our IT functions. But it, it seemed very exciting to me. And as I was looking forward, I knew that it was going to be something that would be influencing the health system for years to come. And so for me, it was another way to learn about the organization. And, you know, I learned things about our organization during that time that I probably would never have learned if I would've just stayed in my lane. And so I think that's part of leadership is we have to always be willing to learn something new, to stretch our thinking so that we can help lead those who are trying to achieve the strategic plans of our respective organizations.

Marianne Lewis: (05:32)
It truly might be our ultimate skill is the ability to learn. And I, I love hearing that from leaders. I've tried to share that with students. I look at your, your, your, even your CV and see, I mean, you've been to all the major higher education institutions of the region. You are a lifelong learner in a very intentional way. It's more than degrees though. Would you share a little bit more about how you learn and help others learn with you?

Deborah Hayes: (06:00)
Right. Well, you know, I think, um, yeah. My, my father used to always say, are you ever gonna graduate? And I used to say to him, no, I'm not going to, because it's part of my responsibility as a leader to, to try and be the best person that I can be to help lead others in, in the way that they need it to be led. And sometimes I think it's formal education. Mm-hmm . Sometimes I think it is education through reading on your own, through, um, professional seminars, um, through affinity groups where you can hear the different breadth and depth and perceptions of others who may have your same circumstance or quite frankly may have a very different perception of the circumstance that you may be dealing with. And so I have a leadership philosophy that not only do you hope that your organization that you work for will help you grow, but I also believe that we each have a professional responsibility to grow our own.

Marianne Lewis: (07:05)
Well, I could not say, could not agree more. It, it leads me to a question also about leadership. Um, a former president here at uc was named Warren Bennis. Some consider him the founder of the field of leadership. And he had, um, a saying that became really a mantra that we often use here, that leadership is forged in the crucible. That in our toughest times we find our, our greatest strengths. And we kind of dig deep. I mean, I know you've had plenty of those kinds of crucible moments. One that strikes me as, as particularly important was the COVID-19 pandemic. There was no playbook. This was completely unprecedented and an incredible time for learning about yourself, the organization, your team. I wonder if you could share a bit about how you approached something of that magnitude.

Deborah Hayes: (07:58)
Sure. Um, as you said, it was a frightening moment for all of us in healthcare because we are traditionally, um, driven by science. And we are traditionally driven by, uh, trial and error. That becomes the scientific evidence of how you provide healthcare. Well, all of that playbook was gone because there was no science and people didn't really understand what the trajectory of this was going to be. And so you really have to dig down deep right into your own personal acumen. But then you have to rely on your teams and you hope that you have built teams around you that can be, um, vigorous in their efforts and can be creative. Because we were creating, as we went, there were oftentimes when we would meet in the morning chart, a path for the day, and literally hours later we're changing that path because there were external forces that we did not anticipate would be a part of what was going to challenge us either for that day or for that week, or quite frankly, uh, four months to come. And so your teams were having to huddle and try to think creatively about how they might provide that same quality of care, but in a very different way and break norms and rules that we had ingrained in them mm-hmm . For years. And we are now asking them to put that aside, but to still try and make sure that those patients were getting the finest care that they could possibly get under some extremely difficult circumstances.

Marianne Lewis: (09:49)
I I imagine that the culture that you have developed played an enormous role even though there were so many unforeseen elements to that. Um, I was talking with a, a colleague of yours, uh, Steve Rossfeld, um, and he, I was asking him a bit about the culture and, and I've read about it as well. I mean, you are known so much through the Christ Hospital Network for this deep culture of care and commitment. Building culture though, is really challenging and sustaining it probably even more. So h how do you think about that from a culture building side of leadership?

Deborah Hayes: (10:28)
Well, you know, the old adage culture eats strategy is so true. And I think it helps that I grew up in the health system. I've literally done just about every job that you could think of. Sounds like it in the health system. And I have a, a, a great respect for each one of our team members. One of the things that's really important to me is the concept of team. And so we do not call our employees employees, they're called team members. And I use a lot of analogies of team sports and I think about the Super Bowl that just happened last night, right. And two teams that should have never gotten to where they were. And yet one of them comes out victorious. But the other one has a lot and did learn a lot through that entire experience. But every team member within our health network has a key role in delivering on the promise that we've made to the community. Whether it's helping to ensure that we have excellent clinical outcomes or an excellent guest experience, or doing so in an affordable way so that everybody in this community can get world class healthcare right here in greater Cincinnati. And we try to instill that in the team members through reward and recognition, through helping them to grow to be the best that they can be through ensuring that they are celebrated when they do wonderful things. And even when they're celebrated for doing things. That might just seem like that's just part of my job.

Marianne Lewis: (12:03)
It it brings me back to, to your mantra and your emphasis on learning as well, because you also like to look for benchmarks and often outside of healthcare. Yes. I wonder if you could share a bit about how you find those benchmarks and, and give us an example. 'cause I know you have some good ones.

Deborah Hayes: (12:21)
Right. Well, it's important to me to understand if you think about our strategic plan, how do I deliver exactly what I've promised? So if you think about experience, patient and guest experience is different in different industries, but it's yet still the same. So we have brought, uh, the Ritz-Carlton in. We have studied Disney, we have studied the airlines. Now some might say good or bad experience, but it's really about taking the best principles from many service industries and trying to say how does that translate into the healthcare situation? Because people want to be treated as human beings. They want to be, um, they want to feel like people care about what their circumstances, whatever that might be. And they wanna know that people are gonna go to the nth degree to help them have a great experience regardless of what service it is that they are asking to experience.

Marianne Lewis: (13:23)
Yeah, absolutely. And and living up to your promise in that way, is it, it it clearly it is embedded in the culture and that's why I eat strategy for breakfast, right? Because then it's everywhere without having to call upon it, you just count on it. Right.

Deborah Hayes: (13:39)
And, you know, for us, taking care of people's health, which is their most important asset mm-hmm . Is a privilege, but it's a huge responsibility. And um, you know, in order for us to be able to deliver on that promise, we benchmark ourselves against all. Some people say, well, let's just benchmark ourselves against something of our size. And I'm like, no, people do not care how big or how small we are. All they are interested in is their experience. So we need to make sure that we're the best of the best regardless of our size, our shape, our complexity. 'cause that's what people in Greater Cincinnati deserve.

Marianne Lewis: (14:22)
They do. And I think what in the point of greater Cincinnati, you care very much about this city, this region. I see it in your civic leadership. It's something we talk a lot to about with our students, is that great leaders think beyond their own organization because your stakeholders are so much farther reaching. And I have the great privilege of serving on the United Way board with you and seeing your leadership there. I'd love to know more about why your why and because you're very busy. You've got work, family, a life in so many different ways, and you give back to this city in some very big ways and it clearly matters to you.

Deborah Hayes: (15:03)
Well, thank you for recognizing that. Um, I think it goes back to my upbringing. My grandparents really had not very much money, and they were certainly of no means. Farmers came, uh, from a small town in Indiana, and they literally would have given the shirt off their back to anyone. And that translated into my parents who had an incredible work ethic. My father didn't even speak English when they moved to Cincinnati. He spoke German. My mom was a high school graduate, and they taught me early on that it was really important to take care of others around you. And I'm very faithful. I'm Catholic by back, by upbringing. And that was part of our faith. And you know, my, we had one car when I was growing up and, you know, a treat was to have a soda and go to Ponderosa on a Sunday evening.

Deborah Hayes: (15:59)
My mom worked until she was 70. And this, this is the work ethic that she had. When she passed away very suddenly, she had worked at McDonald's her, um, entire work life after my second brother was born. And they closed the McDonald's for the entire three days over the course of her funeral so that all the employees at McDonald's could go and pay their respects. That's beautiful. And that's the kind of household that I was brought up in, is that it's our responsibility to give back to others. And so as I have ascended into different roles, I feel like it is a professional and a personal responsibility to give back to others that probably gave back to me and I didn't even know it. And so being on boards like United Way and Arts Wave and a, a number of other boards that I've been on is really important to me because it's the vibrancy of the community that we serve that will not only impact their health, but also it will impact how well Cincinnati does as a whole.

Marianne Lewis: (17:05)
It is, it's so interwoven and we have a great city. I mean, of, of people who do care, especially at the leadership level. I, it's something that matters a great deal to me. And I want our students to understand that's how great cities thrive.

Deborah Hayes: (17:19)
Well, when you look at per capita in Cincinnati, the philanthropic support that is given to this community to help those who have need is by far and away much greater than in many other cities of our size or even bigger. And it's because of the great legacy of families that live here. And it's all about how do we elevate this city to make it a great place for people to bring their businesses, to bring, uh, students here to study, and then to keep students here once they finish their degrees. I mean, our health system was started through the philanthropic efforts of James Gamble, the founder of Proctor and Gamble, who looked out into the city back in the 1880s and said, I'm gonna build my soap business here and my candle making business with William Proctor. And what do we have to do in order to make this a great place for people to work, people to live, people to play, to raise their families? And here we are, 137 years later.

Marianne Lewis: (18:27)
Isn't that a testament? I love that. Yes. That's wonderful. Yes. Thank you. Um, at the Lindner College of Business, uh, we strive to empower business problem solvers. That's our, our, our mission. And we believe if we can help students, whatever their, wherever they end up in a career or, or a location for that matter, that if they can be great problem solvers, they will have meaningful, impactful lives as well as be successful. And when I, when you think about your own problem solving, particularly when it comes to unforeseen challenges, I wonder if there's an example. I think you, you, we know the legislative challenges. There have been so many dynamic changes. How do you approach a problem? Right. Can you give us a little sense of

Deborah Hayes: (19:14)
That? Well, first of all, I think you have to understand your business, and then you have to really dig into whatever that challenge is going to be and how you might think it's going to affect different aspects of your business. So let's look at some of the legislative challenges just in healthcare. So up through, we'll say July of 2025, no one really anticipated what it's, you can call it the big beautiful Bill or HR one was going to and how it might impact the healthcare system. So now that we know what it is, we are diving deep into what do each of those elements mean? And then really taking a hard look at our industry saying, okay, if this is what the bill means, then how are we going to react to that? And this is where I think ingenuity and creativity has to come into play and using, um, industry leaders to try and help formulate plans for that. But then also thinking about how are we going to transform the way that we are delivering care that will do so in an even more efficient manner, but yet keep the same outcomes or even better outcomes.

Marianne Lewis: (20:34)
I so appreciate the way you, you explain that, Debbie, because I, I hear your systems thinking, you think about how all of the, the parts work together. I mean, I think that part of that is your breadth, but I also think you're, you're thinking beyond healthcare because it could be everything from insurance, right, to the financial sector. How do we make this work so that we don't have unintended consequences that take us the wrong way?

Deborah Hayes: (20:59)
And then really thinking about what are the innovations happening in either our industry or in others when we think about agentic ai? And that won't be the answer for everything, right? But how can we use that to either improve the healthcare experience or really to make people more effective in the jobs that they have? Because one of the things that I think about is

Deborah Hayes: (21:25)
The demographics of the United States, and with the birth rates, the way they are, the workforce of the future in terms of just sheer numbers are not going to be what they are currently today. And with 10,000 Americans going on to the Medicare payrolls, that means 65 and over every day 10,000 people move into that category. The number of people coming behind them is not as great. And so that workforce of the post World War II era, those numbers aren't going to be there. So how can technology help us to deliver the same products with maybe less people? It's not about taking people's jobs away. It's about how do we make people more effective in a place where there may not be that many people to deliver those same services?

Marianne Lewis: (22:16)
I appreciate the way you even described that, Debbie. 'cause I hear you playing a long game and thinking about today, right? Managing that tension of today and tomorrow, right? With the rate of change, whether it's AI legislation, I mean, there's so many changes going on and the rate, we're never gonna slow down. I mean, people have said that before, but I, I wonder what you think that means for leadership. Do you envision leadership or the, the needs of leadership changing in the future?

Deborah Hayes: (22:47)
I think that, uh, leaders are going to have to be, um, extremely creative. I think leaders are gonna have to be incredibly inspiring. And I think that leaders are going to have to be, again, and I say this to our new team members, you are gonna constantly have to challenge yourself to learn about what is coming so that you can apply it to what is happening today in order to influence the trajectory of your respective organization.

Marianne Lewis: (23:20)
Oh, absolutely. You know, we're very proud of our Bearcat alumni, especially someone so inspiring as you, Debbie, if you're sitting in my seat. What would you be telling to students today? If you could give them some advice, looking back, what would you like to share?

Deborah Hayes: (23:37)
Well, the first thing I would say is find your passion. And that passion, quite honestly, may change over time, but find something that you love to do. Because we spend a lot of time at work, we spend a lot of energy at work, and we spend a lot of our human capital at work. So I'd say find your passion first. The second thing I would say is be determined, because oftentimes your path might not be a straight line. My path was not a straight line. Um, and sometimes there are disappointments in that, but stay determined and stay on the path. Um, because if that's your passion, it can happen, but it may not be in the manner in which you think. The third, I would say is to be a lifelong learner. Mm-hmm . And the last, I would say, and I say this to every, um, young person that I mentor, put your hand up and volunteer. When the call goes out about, I need someone to do this. Even if you're not sure if you can do it, put your hand up and try. Because you will learn something every single time you do it. And it will open doors that may never, ever have been opened if you didn't do that.

Marianne Lewis: (24:52)
You just never know.

Deborah Hayes: (24:54)
You, you just never know. But

Marianne Lewis: (24:55)
Putting up your hand, taking the initiative, continuing to learn. So, so many insights. Thank you for your thought leadership as well as your active leadership in this community, certainly at the Christ Hospital Network. Thank you for all you do, Debbie, and for being here today.

Deborah Hayes: (25:11)
Well, thank you Dean. And it's been an honor and a pleasure to be here. Uh, this is a wonderful organization and I'm so happy to be able to help the students.

Grant Freking: (25:20)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenged your thinking or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.