Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00)
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing at Lindner. In this episode, I'm joined by Sophia Schwerin and Adam Al-Nammari, two soon to be Lindner graduates. Sophia and Adam are here to reflect on their time at uc, share their biggest takeaways, favorite memories, and how Lindner has shaped their career paths. Plus, we'll get a glimpse into what's next for them as they step into a world beyond Lindner and uc. Sophia and Adam, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Adam Al-Nammari: (00:34)
Thank You. Thank you.

Sophia Schwerin: (00:35)
Yeah, thank you so much.

Grant Freking: (00:37)
Let's explore your backgrounds. I, we've just met a couple minutes ago. Let's get to know you guys a little bit. Sophia, I'll start with you. How did you end up at Lindner?

Sophia Schwerin: (00:44)
Um, so I'm from Cincinnati. I live five minute drive away, so I've always knew I wanted to go to uc and um, just the business college really stuck out to me with, um, the co-op and all the opportunities here. And my brother already went here. So it was kind of just a plan to always go to Lindner and I study international business, um, management and, uh, business law.

Grant Freking: (01:09)
Okay. So you didn't take much convincing when we were sending out recruitment materials to you when you were in high school?

Sophia Schwerin: (01:13)
No, my parents met at uc. All three of my grandparents went to uc, so I I, there's nowhere else I would've gone.

Grant Freking: (01:21)
. Okay. Okay. Good to know. Adam, I think you might have taken a little more convincing you from, you're from Boston, right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (01:25)
Yeah, I'm from Boston. Uh, the town of Marlboro, Massachusetts. Uh, my dad went to college here back in like 98. He played football.

Grant Freking: (01:31)
Okay.

Adam Al-Nammari: (01:31)
And my sister left a year before me and I was just in my academic advisor's room in, uh, in high school and I was like, Hey, I'm apply to uc, let's see if I get in. At the time it was kind of like a reach for me during high school. Visited my sister in Ohio, it's two in the morning. I checked my email and I just see the confetti and I was like, well, I guess I'm gonna uc. So it was, it was a last second decision, but it was a great decision and now I'm here.

Grant Freking: (01:54)
Awesome. Awesome. So fast forward three years in your case, Adam, four years in your case, Sophia, you guys are graduating. How are we feeling?

Adam Al-Nammari: (02:04)
I'm feeling great. It's a lot of stress off my shoulders. I've been taking 18 credits since I got to Lindner and uh, a transition student from Blue Ash. So I've been taking 18 credits since there and it's unreal feeling doing it in three years. It's an accomplishment that I'm kind of proud of myself and I definitely gotta give my, uh, flowers to Gavin Mitchell for definitely helping me out there. Couldn't have done it without 'em, but I'm super excited to get this thing rolling.

Grant Freking: (02:27)
Yeah. Gavin Mitchell, one of our esteemed academic advisors are, are you, you you had an extra year,

Sophia Schwerin: (02:33)
But Yeah, I mean, it went just as fast.

Grant Freking: (02:34)
I'm sure.

Sophia Schwerin: (02:35)
I, I kind of started in 2021, so it was still kind of Covid and I think that might have sped it up, but it was, I think it was way faster than, um, high school and um,

Grant Freking: (02:48)
Yeah. And it's, it's crazy how fast it does go by.

Sophia Schwerin: (02:50)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (02:50)
When like, you really enjoy your experience. I mean, you, your path was kind of laid off for you. You had the familial connection. Right. And you, it seems like you, you wanted to study business too, I'm sure when you came into Lindner.

Sophia Schwerin: (03:00)
Yeah, I started with the same major my whole path. I just added different two minors and a certificate, so I knew where I was going the whole time.

Grant Freking: (03:10)
and you guys got everything set up for, for your family coming in for, I mean, your family, Sophia Doesn does have to come very far, but Adam, do you got family coming in?

Adam Al-Nammari: (03:16)
Yeah, I have eight tickets. Uh, my mom, my dad, my sister's here already and my friend coming from Boston, it's gonna be fun. Uh, I got some uncles here as well, so the whole family's coming. It's gonna be nice.

Grant Freking: (03:27)
Have to negotiate with any of your fellow students or for like, extra graduation tickets or do you get what you needed?

Adam Al-Nammari: (03:31)
I got what I needed 'cause my sister has eight and I requested a plus two, so I think I'm perfect.

Grant Freking: (03:36)
Right on. Right on. Well, let's talk about, let's go through your experiences here at Lindner. Um, Sophia, I'll start with you. So what are some of the highlights that stick out to you? Could be events, could be courses you had, um, maybe influential professors and mentors. What sort of sticks out? So I know it's hard to encompass that to like four years into a couple sentences, but what, what sticks out to you?

Sophia Schwerin: (03:56)
Um, I think the connections I made in Lindner with my professors and like other colleagues going to different, um, um, degrees and pathways. Like, um, one professor, I do a lot of work with Daniel Peat. Um, I've had him for a bunch of classes and now I'm working with research with him and just learning a lot of knowledgeable things. Um, I think I was able to publish with him and I think that's something on my resume that I would not have had if I did not go to Lindner. And I think just the connections are really, really important.

Grant Freking: (04:32)
Yeah, absolutely. An undergraduate student with a research publication is definitely, definitely a really cool accomplishment. Is that something you were interested in? Um, maybe when I'm, I'm curious about the research aspect of it. Did you think about getting research published like early on in your college, even before college or that's something just happened as you got to know? Uh, professor Peat?

Sophia Schwerin: (04:50)
Um, it wasn't really in the front of my mind. My mom is a chemist.

Grant Freking: (04:54)
Okay.

Sophia Schwerin: (04:54)
So she does a lot of research and for, I think it was BA 3080, we did like, um, or it was management. We did, um, a report about like what, um, future career we wanted.

Grant Freking: (05:07)
Mm-hmm .

Sophia Schwerin: (05:08)
And I kind of wrote about like research and development on the business sector and, um, Dr. Peat reached out to me and he was like, Hey, I think I wanna do this case study. Do you wanna do it with me? And then that's how I ended up here.

Grant Freking: (05:21)
Awesome. Awesome. Adam, what sticks out to you during your time here?

Adam Al-Nammari: (05:23)
When it comes to Lindner, there's a lot of professors that are just amazing. I had Professor Nicole Sims for my career success class. You know, it's a one credit class, not too many students think about it as, you know, it's something crazy. But the connection I built, you know, the resumes, the LinkedIn that you make in that class, even for her to write me a letter of recommendation for law school or for grad school in general, it's just amazing the connections I've, I've made here all the way from Dr. Albert Klein to Dr. Rodney Swope. And even with my pace leading, uh, uh, role, I got going on right now. Now, yeah, this is my first semester doing it. But my learning community, I have a great group of students that work super hard. We did our project today, I was telling you, uh, bright and early this morning.

Grant Freking: (06:05)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:05)
But it's just a great role giving back to the community, giving what you got when you first came here and just, it's a cycle and it's, it's just amazing.

Grant Freking: (06:13)
What are a couple things you two wish you would've known as as freshman? Adam, I'll, I'll start with you. I'll put you on the spot. What are a couple things you wish you would've known? Things that would've maybe enhanced your experience as as a first year student?

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:25)
Great question. So, one thing I I think that's very misunderstood is a LinkedIn connection isn't a connection. Meaning just because you connect with someone on LinkedIn doesn't mean they're willing to do something for you.

Grant Freking: (06:38)
It's what you make of it, right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:39)
It's what you make of it. Maybe going to office hours with professors or maybe just meeting with them outta class or et cetera and just getting to know them. 'cause they, they are willing to run a mile for you if you're willing to do the same. So that's one thing I wish I learned and I did learn eventually. It's like, meet with these people after class, get to know them. They are here to help you and they want to see you succeed. So that's one thing I would tell, uh, freshman Adam is get to know them outside of class.

Grant Freking: (07:06)
Yep. They're here to help Sophia have that. Yeah.

Sophia Schwerin: (07:08)
Um, it's kind of building off of that, but like, there's so many different clubs and opportunities and I know like with Lindner women in business, we have different biweekly events and they have professionals talking to you and just making those connections and maybe spending like five minutes after the meeting, introducing yourself, saying hello and trying to connect with that person. Not just, oh, I went to this meeting, I learned something. That's it.

Grant Freking: (07:34)
Right. Now, both of you are very involved students. How do you, Sophia I'll go back to you. How do you balance your workload as, as you know, the academic years coming to a close, you're almost done having to do this, but how did you sort of find success at balancing your, your club involvement, your academic involvement, and anything else you had going on?

Sophia Schwerin: (07:50)
Um, I took mostly in-person classes, but I always had like a few online just so I had more time. And then I work in the Lindner undergraduate programs office and during, as a student worker, I had some extra time to do my homework and I prioritize things during those times that I was able to do more outside of like nine to eight to five.

Grant Freking: (08:15)
Sure. Adam

Adam Al-Nammari: (08:17)
One thing I realized that really worked for me, just a little background, uh, economics major with a legals, uh, studies certificate, what my legal studies class, it's a lot of group work and sometimes with economics you're working in groups as well, maybe for presenting. And it's having a good group with great communication. I really realize communication has really helped me get my stuff done with taking 18 credits, with maybe doing internships, communication and setting a schedule for yourself. 'cause there's no way I could have got this done if our group didn't communicate.

Grant Freking: (08:47)
Yeah.

Adam Al-Nammari: (08:47)
Or if anything came down and, you know, everyone just went ghost. So I would say putting time aside for your group, maybe to meet weekly, like what I'm doing in my capstone class right now. And it really works. It's a great game plan that never fails.

Grant Freking: (09:01)
Awesome. Yeah, the group work is tricky. If, if no one kind of steps up and sort of gets everyone a little bit more organized. I wanna transition to Sophia, I'll go back to you. Your experiential learning ex, um, experiences. So co-ops, internships, maybe study away or study abroad trips. What did you do during your time here at Lindner and what was most impactful to you?

Sophia Schwerin: (09:21)
Yeah, so I have done four short-term study abroads.

Grant Freking: (09:24)
Wow.

Sophia Schwerin: (09:24)
At Lindner. I'm an international business, so I wanted to take advantage of the opportunities.

Grant Freking: (09:30)
Makes sense.

Sophia Schwerin: (09:31)
So I did the Croatia, um, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, and I'm currently in the Columbia study abroad. So it was making use of those, um, new learnings. And with all those study abroads, it was kind of making connections in the country. And some of them, we work with students there, so you learn a lot about the different cultures or meeting businesses over there. So I think using that was really helpful in my development over the past four years. And then I also did a fellowship in Germany, which was a study abroad co-op, um, the Ruhr fellowship. And that really allowed me to grow by, um, working for a German firm. And I was able to go in meetings in German in the German language.

Grant Freking: (10:20)
mm-hmm .

Sophia Schwerin: (10:21)
And develop marketing stuff for that. So I think just all the different opportunities I was able to get at Lindner really helped me develop over the past four years.

Grant Freking: (10:30)
And I think betting these experiences will help, you know, when a future, uh, possible employer comes, comes at you and asks your questions about, you know, sort of crucible moments or, you know, times when you are maybe out of your comfort zone. You have this study abroad experiences to sort of draw on even in a different language to come real prepared to answer questions like that.

Sophia Schwerin: (10:48)
Mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (10:48)
Do you feel like you'll, you'll be at the ready to answer those questions?

Sophia Schwerin: (10:52)
I think so. I, I try to go to like every continent just to get like kind of a background understanding and know. I think obviously every country's different. You kind of have a general culture setting with each one and I think I have a general knowledge to help in the future if I, if needed.

Grant Freking: (11:13)
Adam, what about your standout experiential learning experiences here at Lindner?

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:16)
I've had a couple internships. Uh, my first one was at Creche Law Office in Mason, Ohio. Um, got that through a family friend of course, and I got to know him through past experiences. And honestly it was a shadowing program and it's really like, you know, freshman year it's like, okay, this is, this is what I'm gonna be doing. And like maybe like six, seven years.

Grant Freking: (11:37)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:37)
If I go to law school, pass the bar, et cetera. But, uh, had a also internship operations management at Amazon. That was interesting. A huge company. A huge team. Like maybe 60, 70 employees, but it's

Grant Freking: (11:51)
So two completely different experiences,

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:53)
Two completely different experiences at Amazon. Not wearing a, a tie and a suit or.

Grant Freking: (11:58)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:59)
But it was, it was amazing because it's like, okay, that legal internship is like working in a small group and the Amazon internship's, like I'm working in a huge group, so it's like, okay, like this is like, I'm really getting both worlds right now. Complete opposite, but it was, it was amazing. Definitely helped me with my team dynamics.

Grant Freking: (12:15)
Yeah. And getting a sense of how different departments work and sort of sort of the office politics a little bit and how Yeah. A little bit of taste of that professional environment.

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:23)
Yeah, exactly.

Grant Freking: (12:24)
Adam, how about any advice for current and prospective Lindner students to get the most out of their experience here in this building and even outside of its walls?

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:32)
One thing I would say is you definitely gotta spread your wings. I know a lot of students, and when they're in high school, a lot of teachers, there's a stigma. It's like, oh, you're gonna be by yourself. It's like you're all by yourself. You're not gonna have anyone. It's just you. I really disagree with that.

Grant Freking: (12:46)
There's a community here.

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:47)
There's a community here. And I feel like there's, if you put yourself out there, you're gonna make those connections. One thing I wish my high school teachers told me was like, Hey, it's like if you get involved, like you're gonna be busy 24/7, it's gonna be something completely different than what we told you. Because just being a PACE leader, or even be, uh, talking to my career coach, Weston career advisor, Gavin, it's like, it's completely different than what I was told. And I would definitely tell people to spread your wings, maybe join clubs, maybe pick up an elective where it's something you wanna study. And so like, get the feel of it and see if you wanna make that major switch. Or even doing a, a pre-business administration, take different classes and pick what major you want to do. I feel like there's no rush. I feel like everyone thinks there's, there's a rush on them.

Grant Freking: (13:34)
Mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (13:35)
Hey, you have to graduate, you gotta go get a job. I feel like if you just slow down, you know, graduate in four years, but do different classes. Test what you really like. That's one thing I would tell people.

Grant Freking: (13:46)
All right. So spread your wings and maybe consider graduating in four years instead of three years. Right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (13:51)
. Yeah. You can say that.

Grant Freking: (13:52)
Sophia, what about you?

Sophia Schwerin: (13:54)
Um, I would kind of say the same thing with like reaching out. I know a lot of people are scared about going to their academic advisor or, um, career coach, but they, they're your resources and they're there for a reason and it's,

Grant Freking: (14:08)
It's literally their job. .

Sophia Schwerin: (14:09)
Yeah, it's their job and you need to reach out. And one thing I kind of did towards the end of my career at Lindner is in certain classes I started sitting in different spots. So I would.

Grant Freking: (14:21)
Oh, interesting.

Sophia Schwerin: (14:21)
Like, talk to new students. And I thought that was maybe like a good idea. Maybe the start in the beginning of your college career. 'cause you don't know anyone when you start, you're starting from new you maybe no one from your high school's there.

Grant Freking: (14:35)
Right.

Sophia Schwerin: (14:35)
And if you are sitting in different spots, you talk with different people, you're getting the new connections. And I think with Lindner it's all about connections, building your connections. And that's one way

Grant Freking: (14:46)
It's great advice. And my thanks to Sophia Schwerin and Adam Al-Nammari for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five star review for Bearcats Mean business on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Grant Freking: (00:01)
Straight lines are an anomaly in higher education. The road less traveled, marked by twists and turns is the norm for students. Such as the manner in which many students find their way to Lindner, too. Students from a range of backgrounds, locations, and stages in their lives turn to Lindner.

Grant Freking: (00:15)
The same could be said of my guest today. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing at the Carl Lindner College of Business. And this is Bearcats Mean Business. Joining me today is Dr. Ryan Gaffney. A three time, yes. Three time Lindner graduate, who is now a professor at the Owen Graduate School of Management at Vanderbilt University. Ryan, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Ryan Gaffney: (00:42)
Yeah, thanks, grant. Uh, happy to be here. Uh, you know, if, if you would've told me, you know, the 18-year-old version of myself, uh, would've ended up with three degrees all from, you know, Lindner, uh, I, I thought you would be, you know, trolling me. I, that's just beyond my wildest imagination.

Grant Freking: (00:58)
Rightfully so. I think, yeah,

Ryan Gaffney: (01:01)
. Yeah, it's crazy. I, I had no idea what professors did outside of teaching, to be honest. Mm-hmm . For a while. Uh, I even thought I was gonna major in, in something totally different outside of business. Uh, I, I was taking a lot of, uh, theoretical physics classes. Uh, it turns out that those are, are really hard and, um, you know, there's no, there's no experiment. So we, we kind of just sit around and, and think and do math. Uh, so that wasn't really my, my, uh, cup of tea, if you will. Uh, but that all changed when I, I took a marketing class, um, and it, it completely like reframed how I thought about business. I, I wasn't a big business guy until I took this class called Consumer Behavior. I, I believe, uh, professor Frank Kardes was teaching it. And I, I remember on the first day we were talking about experiments and, you know, we were really diving into how do people think and how do people behave in, in the marketplace? And I'd never thought about business that way. And so, uh, that one class, you know, set me on a path I, I never saw coming. But, um, you know, looking back, I wouldn't change a thing. So that, that really got things in motion. And, uh, now I'm here. So, uh, happy to be here and, uh, excited about this, uh, this episode, this podcast.

Grant Freking: (02:09)
Well, thanks again for being here. It sounds like you're blending a little bit of the science background with, with your marketing studies there, but we'll get, we'll get to that. I wanna start at the beginning though. You're a first generation student, and you've got, as we've mentioned, three degrees from Lindner. You've got your BBA, your MS marketing, and your PhD, all in marketing again. So walk me through what you do, I guess, uh, now and then how, let's, let's go to the, the, the beginning and how you kind of got your start, which you sort of touched on at the beginning in, in your intro there, but let's expand a little bit more on that.

Ryan Gaffney: (02:40)
Yeah, yeah. I'm, uh, I'm a sucker for origin stories. Those are my, uh, my favorite Marvel movies, you know. Um, so this one will be a little less, uh, interesting. I think, uh, you know, there's no superheroes involved. But, uh, I did start, uh,

Grant Freking: (02:54)
.

Ryan Gaffney: (02:54)
I, I did start at UC in, in the fall of 2013. Uh, I, I went to, uh, high school over at, uh, Sycamore High School, um, over on the east side there. Um, and like a lot of students, I was, I was figuring out things, uh, as I went. I, I, uh, you know, I was a first generation student. Neither of my, neither of my parents had gone to a university or had college degree, so I honestly, I relied a lot on the resources that UC had to offer in, and later Lindner. Um, but yeah, real quick, shout out to my first gen students, uh, listening now, uh, . It, it's tough, you know, not really knowing what's, uh, in the path, uh, in front of you, but

Grant Freking: (03:32)
Absolutely. Yep.

Ryan Gaffney: (03:33)
But that, you know, that's one of the reasons why Lindner and, and UC is so special. I mean, they, they really helped me kind of guide me down, uh, which paths were available to me as a, uh, someone that was interested in marketing. Um, but anyway, I, I'm deviating a little bit. I, I'll go back to my, to the origin story, uh, . But, uh, when I, uh, after 2014, I transferred into, um, marketing, uh, the marketing major transferred into Lindner. And, uh, that eventually led me to, uh, conduct research in consumer behavior. Uh, for those that are familiar with it. Uh, this is the science of marketing and, uh, really like how people like you and me grant think about, uh, buying and making decisions and navigating uncertainty, um, and, and that sort of stuff. Um, but yeah, one thing led to another. I I ended up staying at UC for my master's in marketing, uh, graduating in 2017. Uh, during that time, I worked in the behavioral lab and spent time in what was, uh, at the time the brand new 3D printing lab at Lindner. That, that was with professor, uh, Elliott Manzon. Uh, great, great professor. Uh, if you're listening to this now and you're, you're a student, uh, re recommend, uh, taking his class. It's a lot of fun.

Grant Freking: (04:45)
Yeah. Elliot Elliott's great. A lot of fun classes from him.

Ryan Gaffney: (04:48)
Yeah. And, and generally, uh, you know, very empathetic guy. You know, he offers a lot of knowledge, a lot of wisdom. Um, yeah. So, uh, after my master's, I, I decided to pursue my, uh, PhD. Uh, I, I studied under, uh, professor Frank Kardes, which, uh, yes, is, is the first marking class I took that I talked about before. Uh, he, he was teaching consumer behavior in undergrad, and I decided I would study consumer behavior with him, um, as I pursued my, uh, PhD. Uh, I also had guidance from other professors like, uh, Bob Wyer, uh, Josh Clarkson, uh, amongst a few others. Um, I graduated in 2021, and, uh, I headed to Vanderbilt, um, at the Owen Graduate School of Management. Uh, that's where I am today. Uh, here I conduct consumer behavior research and teach marketing courses like, uh, advertising and experiential learning. Um, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Both my research and my approach to teaching are, are rooted in what I learned during my time at Lindner. I can't say this enough. I mean, UC isn't just a place with opportunities. It's a place where students, you know, make, make things happen. I, I know that sounds incredibly cliche, uh, ,

Grant Freking: (05:56)
But it's a, sometimes those are true, right?

Ryan Gaffney: (05:59)
. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, you know, what, what I really appreciated about UC was were all the opportunities that were available to me. And, uh, I, I think that is so, so unique, um, for undergraduate program. Um, you know, they don't just put you on a track and then expect you to graduate, you know, checking off all these boxes, right? There are so many different opportunities. There's so many different resources, and, um, you know, you combine that with the grittiness of your students who are motivated to, you know, go and, and get everything that they can. Um, I, I think that's what makes UC special. I mean, I, I read the other day that I, uh, y'all have the, the most unicorns in the country, right? Uh, the, the most, uh, funded entrepreneurship ventures and, and a lot of these things. And I, I, I credit that to a lot, uh, the student body as well as the, uh, you know, the, the building, you know, the Lindner, the, the dean, the professors, so on and so forth.

Grant Freking: (06:51)
Ryan, you're, you're sort of Lindner life cycle as I kind of like to coin it, uh, is really fascinating to me. And I appreciate you kind of walk walking listeners through your journey there, which is lengthy. You, we were talking off air beforehand about how you, you had the experience of, of both buildings, right? You were in the old Lindner Hall, the new Lindner hall. You, you signed a beam that is now, uh, keeping this one of the beams, keeping this building upright. So that's, it's such a cool, a cool story.

Grant Freking: (07:17)
And let, let's touch a little bit more on, as you say, the origin, uh, story. I'm, I'm interested in your sort of aha moment and your, your original consumer behavior course with Professor Kardes. That seems to not, seems to definitely altered the course of your academic career. Let's dive a little bit more into that. 'cause I think lots of students have that have that moment where they kind of, maybe the switch flips. I know for me, I, it happened to me in high school when I decided I wanted to study journalism when I was 16. But some students, it takes a little longer than that, and they, and they come to them in college like it did, like it did for you.

Ryan Gaffney: (07:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I, I want to, you know, preface this with, uh, undergraduate college, especially the first couple years that, I mean, that's the time to explore. And honestly, for me, the first couple of semesters were finding out what I didn't like to do. Right. And, uh, you know, I thought the idea of physics was really cool. Uh, the math got really hard. And you know what, I, I wasn't great at memorizing formulas that that wasn't, uh, something that I was particularly gifted at. Um, however, I, I love the idea of, uh, discovery of, of experimentation of, you know, kind of the, the sciencey kind of nature of things and how to think about science. And so, um, I, I took a business course, uh, my, my father's in sales. And so I, I thought, you know, uh, why not give it a shot?

Ryan Gaffney: (08:38)
And, uh, you know, so I, I, I remember the first day of class, I, I don't know, I, you know, the listeners now, if they've taken a, a class or course with Frank Kardes, they, they already know this, but Frank teaches from a very, very scientific perspective, right? So we, we will go over experiments, right? And he, he will go into detail. I mean, that, that is his jam. Uh, he's a, a, uh, you know, he's kind of legendary within the, the, uh, academic, uh, research, uh, field. And so I, I remember the first day we were talking about experiments, and I was like, I did not think about business from a scientific perspective, right? To me, business was about, you know, talking to other people and persuasion and, and these kind of things. And, and then all of a sudden, you know, I have this professor who's breaking it down, like, you know, I, I saw in the physics department, and I was like, oh, this really resonates with me. And I, I think that actually that aha moment, I, I think that's more common than, uh, maybe we, we give credit to, right? I mean, it happened to you for journalism, um, you know, in high school, which I, you know, I'm envious of, but 'cause it took me a little later, uh, .

Grant Freking: (09:46)
Yeah.

Ryan Gaffney: (09:47)
But, you know, uh,

Grant Freking: (09:51)
But you just, you decided, you, yeah. You decided you wanted research, but sort of in a different way. So still sort of the science background of what you originally kind of wanted, but just a different spin on it right? In inside the business school.

Ryan Gaffney: (10:03)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I, I guess I, I never realized that business could also mean the study of people and how we behave. And, um, that, that was something that I, I mean, that, that gripped me. And I, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I remember I kept bothering Professor Kardes, so I apologize for that if he's listening now, uh, . But I was so , I was so interested in it. I read that textbook, uh, you know, from cover to cover. And, uh, you know, eventually I, I studied, uh, under him, uh, when I was pursuing my PhD. So I, I think, uh, you know, I, I made up for bothering him my, my freshman year. But, um, yeah, I mean, I, I think that can be used as an example for, for other students that are maybe uncertain about what they wanna do. Um, you know, go ahead and, and ask professors for the courses that you appreciate.

Ryan Gaffney: (10:52)
You know, kind of what, what is the journey? What is the pathway to, um, you know, work and kind of that area, right? Whether that's digital marketing, um, I know Professor Mantel taught digital marketing when I left, and, and she, um, was excellent at, um, kind of getting students in a position to, uh, achieve a, a digital marketing career. Uh, that's just one example. But, um, you know, definitely reach out to your professors. They, they love talking to students, and especially students that ask about how to, you know, pursue a career in the thing that they teach. Um, as a professor myself, I, I, I have to say, when a, when a student asks me about, you know, the subject that I teach, I mean, sometimes I, I talk too much, right? I, I think you'll find that a lot of these professors are so passionate about this stuff that, you know, you may get too much advice.

Grant Freking: (11:41)
Right. I like the trial and error approach, though. 'cause that's something we teach the students here at Lindner about co-op, right? It's not only about figuring out what you want to do, it's about figuring out what you don't want to do. And sort of, hopefully it's not a big long process of elimination for you, but hopefully, and hopefully you land on something soon, but it, it does help rule out, I think, you know, and maybe narrow down your, your eventual job search. Ryan, I wanna transition a little bit to some outside of the classroom experiences. You had some study abroad experiences that had, that you, uh, that you, you were pretty passionate about. And walk me through how those impacted you. How do you sort of landed on the few experiences you had and, and your overall, um, experience with your experiences outside of the classroom here at Lindner?

Ryan Gaffney: (12:27)
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, just background here, you know, first generation student haven't really left Ohio very much. Um, and then, uh, I, I remember I, I met, uh, professor Armstrong, Lee Armstrong, um, and, and she was running the, uh, the, uh, study abroad program at, at UC. I, I think I went to an information session and I, I remember, you know, her just talking about, um, anyone, any student is, is eligible for, uh, the study abroads. Um, and here's how you do it. And I, you know, this is another moment where you, you see Lindner, they really provide these opportunities, um, for those that that won it. And I, I thought this was, this would be incredible to go to the other side of the globe. Are you kidding me? Uh, that, that would be why.

Grant Freking: (13:17)
Yeah, of course.

Ryan Gaffney: (13:17)
Uh, yeah. And, and so I, I decided to, uh, sign up for, um, this study abroad in China.

Ryan Gaffney: (13:25)
Uh, I, I was interested in how, how factories work and in global business in general. This was around the time that I decided to add, uh, international business to my, to my major. And so I, I remember talking to Professor Seiple about it. She, she was all on board. Um, and she, she really helped me kind of prepare for that, that study abroad. And then I, I have to tell you what, what we learned on that study abroad was very important. We toured factories, uh, like P&G and, um, I think that was in the Sichuan province, right? So we, we actually got to go inside the factories and see how things are made, which is really cool. But honestly, you know, the, the most I got out of that was just seeing how people in other places in the world, you know, behave and, and interact. It, it was really eye-opening for me and really kind of changed my mindset on how the world works. And so I, I highly, highly recommend, you know, to, to the undergraduate students listening now, um, you know, to check those opportunities out. You know, maybe they're not for you, but, um, you know, at least, you know, give them a a a once over, right. Um,

Grant Freking: (14:30)
Yeah. Some real world applications of international business on those trips. And so that was one for you. Then another one was a, a trip with the, uh, very famous professor here at Lindner, uh, Chuck Matthews, who is also famous for the, the, the second trip that you went on, which I think he makes yearly. Yearly now. And that's to the, uh, United Arab Emirates.

Ryan Gaffney: (14:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Pro Professor Matthews, uh, just a great guy, uh, . Um, you know, he, he's really committed to, uh, helping you, you know, learn while you're studying abroad or studying abroad. Um, I, I remember one of the most, uh, you know, at the time was kind of frustrating, but, uh, to be honest, but, uh, valuable things looking back, was that we had to keep a journal, right? So every day we'd have to write about our experiences, and I honestly, I still have that journal today. And, uh, so I, I highly recommend taking a journal with you when, if you study abroad or, um, even if you, if you venture into new areas, uh, in, in the world. But, um, but yeah, that, that study abroad and, uh, the UAE was, was really, really cool. Really, really eye-opening. I mean, uh, you may notice the theme between my, uh, both of my study abroads, that they're not kind of your, your typical, um, you know, trip to, uh, you know, maybe Europe or, or, uh, a different place in America. I, I was really interested in how people not like me, uh, kind of operate in society. And, and so it was really eye-opening from that perspective. Um, you know, a culture that, you know, doesn't drink for example, or doesn't drink alcohol, I should, maybe I should be more specific. They drink water, don't worry. Mm-hmm

Grant Freking: (16:09)
. Yes, they hydrate, uh,

Ryan Gaffney: (16:11)
. Maybe I should drink some more water.

Grant Freking: (16:13)
Yeah. And you also note that you, uh, you, you told me beforehand that how this, uh, this co this the co-op with, with Chuck and at the UAE, uh, helped you very significantly with your first co-op and, um, a little bit of context around market research analysis for some, for some startups.

Ryan Gaffney: (16:31)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Chuck is, uh, or Professor Matthews, uh, is, uh, you know, really into entrepreneurship. I, I know that that's kind of his, his jam over there. And so that was what this whole study abroad was about, and it was really interesting to see how this startup community works and the similarities between how it works in America and, uh, and the UAE. Um, but this, this knowledge that I, I learned from, uh, this study abroad and, and from Professor Matthews, uh, really helped me get a job, uh, at, at a, uh, for my first co-op where I helped, uh, Cincinnati based startups with their market research, uh, needs. And so I did a lot of market penetration analyses. Uh, you know, I, I was getting startup, uh, companies onto QVC, uh, . So you probably, the listener don't know what that is, but your parents do, um,

Grant Freking: (17:27)
Or if, or if maybe if they watch Hacks on HBO, they might know, so

Ryan Gaffney: (17:30)
Oh, yeah, good point. Good point. Um, but yeah, so that really helped me gain experience in, in a industry, in an area that, um, you know, it's hard to get into. And, and so that really helped me with my co-op, and honestly, that, that helped me as I, uh, started to, uh, push forward in, in that, uh, area. You know, I, that wasn't my first, or that wasn't my last, uh, job in, uh, kind of the startup world.

Grant Freking: (17:56)
Mm-hmm .

Ryan Gaffney: (17:57)
Um, I, I kept working through my master's, um, at, at different companies. I, I believe I was at Luxotica, uh, at the time for my master's. Um, but yeah, all, all around startups. At, at the time, Luxotica was onboarding a, a new company, so they, they wanted the startup folk. Anyway, I digress. I know, uh, . But, uh, the, the things I, I learned from, uh, that, that study abroad really helped me, um, you know, kind of learn about this area, learned that I liked this area and led to my first job. Sure.

Grant Freking: (18:29)
Yeah. Let's transition into your master's studies. Um, I know you, you graduated your undergrad early, which, uh, I think may have been a, a different notion back, back when, when you did it, but I, I know currently more and more students are doing this because they're, they're entering Lindner with more and more college credit, right? So they're graduating early and they're often, uh, just graduating early to get jobs, or they're also moving into a master's program or an MBA program here at Lindner. So walk me through that thought process from you and the ability to sort of customize your education and your master's, uh, master's of marketing program.

Ryan Gaffney: (19:06)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That, that is one thing that I, I really appreciate about Lindner itself is, you know, once again, there's not one single track that, you know, the, the college puts you on, and it expects you to check off the boxes. I, for me, what was best, uh, was to, um, you know, graduate early, so I can transition to that master's program as, uh, as you just mentioned. And eventually my PhD. Um, I, I didn't come in with a lot of, uh, AP credit. I, I don't think I came in with any AP credit, actually. Uh, but I, I tested out of intro to marketing, uh, . I, I don't know if you can still do that. I think that was in like a testing phase. Um, however, uh, you know, one thing that Lindner did let me do is I, I just took 18 credit hours a semester, and, uh, once I realized that consumer behavior was kind of my passion was, was something I wanted to pursue going forward, um, you know, I kind of buckled down and just knocked out those, those courses. And, uh, that led me to the master's program, um, that, that led me to, uh, just a, a plethora of opportunities. Um, the amount of job offers and, and networking opportunities in the Master's program are, are really, uh, astounding. Um, I, I think a lot of master's programs, uh, at least in marketing, could learn a thing or two from how Cincinnati has it set up. So, uh, ,

Grant Freking: (20:24)
Yeah. Then you, you also, I know, spent a great deal amount of time in the consumer marketing insights lab, some sort of different sort of, uh, subsets within that too.

Ryan Gaffney: (20:36)
Absolutely. Yeah. I, uh, so I, I worked in the, the 3D printing lab, uh, at the time. Uh, I worked in the behavioral lab as well, um. And in this behavioral lab, I, I had the role of research assistant, and my job there was to, uh, help conduct those studies. And so for the first time in my life, I got to see, you know, these studies, I learned so much about in this consumer behavior class, so much that I learned about, you know, from these other professors. Um, and I, I don't know how many Lindner students know this, but the, the marketing department at Lindner is, you know, worldwide famous. Um, they're, uh, absolute rock stars over there. And so to see their research, um, in progress, which is invaluable to me, something and an opportunity that most undergrads do not have. So, uh, I, I recommend if you're, if you really enjoy your consumer behavior class, um, you know, maybe reach out to see if you know a research assistant is kind of the next step for you. Um, I, I loved my time there and, and ultimately that, that led to me deciding to, um, quit my job. Uh, my parents weren't thrilled about that, but quit my job, and, uh, enroll in the, uh, the PhD, uh, program at, at Cincinnati, at Lindner.

Grant Freking: (21:50)
Yeah. You, uh, you had two degrees and you decided why not? Let's go for one more. So, uh, decided to get, get, spend even more time as you, with you, as you mentioned, some, some world famous researchers in marketing and get, get your PhD in marketing.

Ryan Gaffney: (22:05)
Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, it, it was, it was kind of a, a thrilling experience. Uh, once again, you know, as a, as a first generation student, I, I didn't know how PhD programs worked. I didn't know how Master's program worked. You know, looking back, maybe I compensated a little too much for, uh, being a first gen, I, I felt like I had to get all the degree degrees now. Right?

Grant Freking: (22:28)
Right, yeah. Yeah. There's plenty more for you to get if you, if you're still interested. So.

Ryan Gaffney: (22:32)
Yeah, I, I think my parents would be even more upset, uh, . No, but, uh, you know, there, there's great programs there. And, and for my PhD, I, I studied consumer behavior. Uh, I, I benefited from learning from some of these, these great researchers. Um, at the time, uh, we had Bob Wyer, uh, in the marketing department, and I, I know that Dean, she, she's famous for, uh, Dean Lewis. She's famous for this paradox mindset, right? And, which is, you know, really cool research. I believe that research was published in JPSP. It's a really fancy scientific journal, so, you know, very prestigious. Um, Bob Wyer, uh, was the one that kind of discovered mindsets, and so he was a huge deal as well. Uh, I think at one point he was evaluated as one of the top a hundred scientists in the world. Um, and so, uh, it was really neat just to see how people like Bob talk, right. People, how, how people like Frank, uh, interact with him. And, um, so that, that led me to conducting my own research. Uh, I, I ended up giving a, uh, I don't know if you know this, I, I ended up giving a, uh, TEDx talk at, um, it did, uh, for the University of Cincinnati, um, that I think that was ran by Professor Matthews, now that I think about it. He, he kinda weaves in and out of this, this story, uh, ,

Grant Freking: (23:47)
He's, he's everywhere, man.

Ryan Gaffney: (23:48)
Yeah, yeah. All at once. Um, yeah, so I, I gave this, this, uh, TEDx talk about, uh, my research on omission neglect. And, um, I'm, I'm honestly, I'm still researching that. So I'm coming out with a, uh, a chapter to be published in August on the same topic. Um, so, uh, yeah, that, that was kind of my time at, at, in the PhD program. Uh, that was another four years of my life. If, if you're a listener and you're trying to add up how many years I spent at, at Cincinnati, it's too many. Uh, but, uh,

Grant Freking: (24:21)
Well, and part of the, yeah. Part of the PhD program is also you're making the transition from student to instructor, right? And so, uh, I know there was a couple other professors that we haven't mentioned yet that had an influence on you, that a couple other marketing professors where you were, you served as a TAs for.

Ryan Gaffney: (24:41)
Absolutely. Um, I, there's two professors that really changed how I thought about teaching. And, uh, the, the first one was, uh, Jane Sojka. Uh, I, I was her ta and she, she was teaching Introduction to Marketing, and we're talking these large classes, right? I mean, auditorium sized classes. And it, it just astounded me how she taught. And she always knew her student's name, and there's probably 400 different students in this course, and she always knew the student's name. And she always thought about, you know, these questions or concerns that students had from the student's perspective, and just the amount of like, active empathy that she had for these students. Um, and how how motivated she was for these students to succeed really impacted how I teach even now. And so, you know, even even here at Vanderbilt, I, I think to myself, you know, maybe one day I can be half as good a as Professor Sojka. I mean, she's really a, a rockstar, uh, all, all-star, um, professor. And so, um, she, she really had a, a large impact on, on how I teach and, and really has shaped, um, my teaching program here at, here at Vanderbilt. Um, yeah, so shout out, shout out Jane Sojka. She's, she's listening now. But the, uh, the other professor that I I worked with as a TA was, uh, James Kellaris. Uh, I'm, I'm not sure. He just retired.

Grant Freking: (26:04)
Yes, yes. Unfortunately. So, but yes, he had a long, great career.

Ryan Gaffney: (26:07)
Yeah. Yeah. And he, he approached it from a, a very different angle, and so he also had just a ton of students. Um, but he was really good at being efficient with his assignments. He never assigned busy work. Um, every, everything he said or assigned all had purpose. And so it was incredibly efficient. And, uh, what what was really neat was with that efficiency, he had so much more time, um, to really, you know, put himself in the shoes of the students or, um, you know, really, you know, give back in terms of teaching or individual, uh, mentorship, uh, to, to the students. And, and so the, just this efficiency of, um, disseminating knowledge was just, you know, unparalleled for James. He, he is the best at it, and I, I think most people would agree with that. So, um, both of these professors, um, are people that I look up to still today, um, when it, when it comes to teaching and, um, have, you know, entirely shaped how I teach here at, at Vanderbilt. So, uh, like you said, um, going from student to instructor, that's what the PhD program's all about. And these two had a, a massive impact when it on me, when it comes to, um, how I teach today.

Grant Freking: (27:20)
So. Sure. Now that, that we've completed your, your long winding academic journey, I want to go from a little bit of like a a thousand foot view and maybe some general advice, tips and tricks from your years of accumulated wisdom for both current Lindner students and perhaps perspective let students about college in general, navigating Lindner, and just kind of getting through school in general.

Ryan Gaffney: (27:43)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so just starting from a kind of a university perspective, and I'll kind of narrow down to, to Lindner here. Um, you know, I, I should start by saying, uh, my, my nephew has just enrolled into the University of Cincinnati, and so, uh, it's kind of a full circle moment for me. Uh, you know, he's, he's experiencing his first year and, you know, there's a lot of, uh, similarities, a lot of overlap. And, and so, um, a lot of this advice is fresh, uh, is what I'm saying. Uh, but the, the first thing that I would recommend, um, you know, if you're a first year or, you know, soon to be first year, right? Um, definitely look at, uh, clubs, uh, or, or different hobbies, right? Um, that are available at the University of Cincinnati or available within Lindner. I always recommend to choose one professional club and one, uh, like passion club, right?

Ryan Gaffney: (28:37)
For, for example, I'll give an example for me. Uh, I, I joined the American Marketing Association for my professional club. That was something that I was interested in. It gave me the ability to network. Um, I'm, I'm very introverted, believe it or not. Um, however, uh, you know, joining these kind of clubs, being around these people, uh, it allows you to naturally kind of connect with individuals. And I, I still keep in touch with people, um, that I met from a MA today. Um, the other club that I was a part of was Colleges Against Cancer. Um, I was really big into, um, you know, raising money for the American Cancer Society. Uh, you know, that that was the, I spent my three years of undergrad, uh, you know, completely enthralled into this, this club, this hobby. And, uh, eventually that led to, uh, tobacco free uc.

Ryan Gaffney: (29:28)
I don't know if that's still a thing over there, but, uh, you know, that that club, uh, when I was president, authored that bill. Um, and, and so that was a, a big moment for us. We raised over a hundred thousand dollars, you know, so that, that was something that, um, really helped me outside of, you know, my, my career path, my career pursuits. And I, I think that's important because, you know, you'll have bad days when it comes to classes. You'll have bad days when it comes to networking or your career path, but when you can.

Grant Freking: (29:57)
mm-hmm .

Ryan Gaffney: (29:57)
You know, kind of put that to the side, you know, for, you know, a day or, you know, for a meeting, um, I, I think that gives you enough, uh, breathing room to, you know, kind of pick up, you know, where you left off. Um, but yeah, so I, I don't know if that makes sense. I, I feel like maybe

Grant Freking: (30:14)
No, that's, it's all, it's all very cogent, uh, and potent advice, I think, and, and it's pertinent. And I think another point, I think to wrap up, uh, our conversation is sort of the impact and reiterating the impact of your experiential alerting opportunities. Um, many of which you've mentioned the study abroad, the lab work, the co-ops and internships. The other ones maybe that we probably didn't even get to, um, because at the end of the day, I think college is about building the foundation for your career. So tying a bow on it, what, what sort of closing statement can you offer to the impact of the experiential learning opportunities that Lindner can offer and how they've, how yours and impacted you?

Ryan Gaffney: (30:56)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, that's a great question. Uh, at, at the end of the day, you know, college is about building the foundation for your career. I mean, that's, that's why we go to college, right? Um, however, it is also the best time to explore and try something new. And I, I really believe that, um, you may never have this much freedom again to experiment with what comes next. Um, you know, for me, I can't sign up for a study abroad, um, that, you know, I've.

Grant Freking: (31:23)
mm-hmm .

Ryan Gaffney: (31:23)
too many obligations, too many responsibilities at home. I I'm sure it's the same way for you Grant as well. You, uh, I'm sure Lindner has you doing a lot over there. You, you do a lot for the students. Um, so you have this freedom, um, use it, right? Why not make the most of it? So, you know, if, if you're interested in, uh, operations management, go see what the hubbub is about in Asia and how they deal with manufacturing.

Ryan Gaffney: (31:48)
You're interested in international business and, and how startups work, um, you know, try your, you know, talk to Professor Matthews. I, I think you said he's still doing that, that study abroad. Talk to him and see if that study abroad makes sense. And the really neat thing is, if it does make sense, Lindner has a way of making it happen for you, right? If it's something you wanna do, Lindner can help you get there. And I, I really appreciate that that's something that's special at, uh, universities, uh, especially for undergrads. That definitely does not happen at other universities. Um, you know, lastly, I, I know a lot of listeners are probably not thinking about their PhD, Grant. I I don't know if, if that's true, but, um, ,

Ryan Gaffney: (32:32)
Um, if, if you are interested in research, you know, try your hand at it, uh, reach out to the, the behavioral lab, uh, I'm sure that they're hiring. Um, they're always interested in bringing on research assistants. Um, and, you know, last but not least, uh, you know, take that class you're unsure about. You know, for me it was marketing. I, I didn't even think I wanted to go into business, but I took that marketing course. Um, I found out that like, oh, this is the thing I wanna do for the rest of my life, and it brought me here. So you never, you never know what might end up shaping your future. For me, it was that class. Um, for you. It could be, you know, a journalism class, you know, uh.

Grant Freking: (33:13)
And you could grow up just to be like me. Yeah. .

Ryan Gaffney: (33:16)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (33:18)
All right. Well, my thanks to Ryan Gaffney for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five-star review for Bearcats Mean Business on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
The Grau Center for Professional Selling, which sits within the Lindner College of Business Marketing Department, combines classroom teaching with experiential learning to create unique sales-focused academic and real world learning opportunities to all students. We develop graduates who are extremely prepared for a successful sales career.

Grant Freking: (00:16)
One of those opportunities, the Spring Sales Expo is quickly approaching, slated for Wednesday, March 5th, at Tangeman University Center's Great Hall on the campus of the University of Cincinnati. The Spring Sales Expo is an opportunity for students to engage with employers about co-op, internship and full-time and part-time openings. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing, the Carl H. Lindner College of Business. And this is Bearcats Mean Business. Joining me today to talk about the Spring Sales Expo and all things sales at Lindner are Jennifer Barlow, the Grau Center for Professional Sellings executive director, and Sophie Legue, a fourth-year student at Lindner studying marketing and professional selling. Jennifer and Sophie, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Jennifer Barlow: (00:59)
Thank You. Happy to be here.

Grant Freking: (01:01)
Glad to have you. So sales center, I'm gonna talk to the executive director first. Jen, tell me all about the sales center. What's the who, what's the where, what's the when, why there's plenty of stuff going on right now. What do the people need to know?

Jennifer Barlow: (01:12)
Absolutely. So we've been around since about 2011. Uh, the great thing about our program is that we are drawing students from across campus. So not just business students are taking our classes, but we've got students coming from A&S, from DAAP and Engineering. So it makes the classroom conversations really diverse and interesting when you have an international business students sitting next to a ballet major with a civil engineering student. Um, it just really makes for great conversations.

Grant Freking: (01:39)
Yeah. Truly interdisciplinary as we'd like to say in the academic world around here.

Jennifer Barlow: (01:43)
There you go. Absolutely. Yes.

Grant Freking: (01:45)
And so what are, and so what are some of the opportunities, I just read one off in the intro. Do students have to get involved and get critical career experience?

Jennifer Barlow: (01:52)
Yeah, so we do, I work with several, uh, student organizations. Uh, one is our sales leadership club, um, and then our elite club, our varsity sales team, that's the competitive sales team that is traveling to various collegiate competitions. And then our newly launched medical sales club. Uh, 'cause there's an interest from students to get into medical device sales or pharmaceutical sales. So really working with a lot of those students on, uh, bringing companies into the classroom or corporate partners into the classroom. Working on a lot of different activities if it's their elevator pitch, how to have a proper handshake, how to have, make eye contact with somebody. Um, also teaching students how to have very good posture.

Grant Freking: (02:30)
right.

Jennifer Barlow: (02:30)
And confident posture when they're talking with, with strangers and talking with different employers.

Grant Freking: (02:35)
And so they take all these elements and go to career opportunities. Perhaps Sophie, I don't, I think you've already got a job lined up, so maybe you won't be attending the spring sales Expo coming up March 5th. What do people need to know about that?

Jennifer Barlow: (02:46)
Absolutely. So for students, I say please register on handshake ahead of time so I can print your name tags. So the companies that are coming are from a wide variety of industries.

Grant Freking: (02:54)
Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (02:54)
So we have, you know, financial industries, uh, we have packaging industries that are coming as well as logistics and transportation. So really just wanna expose students to the various industries that are there, a lot of different opportunities. And what I tell the students are that when the, when you're meeting with that employer or that campus recruiter, keep in mind that they're also hiring for other opportunities.

Grant Freking: (03:15)
That's right.

Jennifer Barlow: (03:16)
So if somebody is a digital marketing student or if they are a graphic designer, you know, have that conversation with the employer to see what else might be available if they're not necessarily wanting to go a sales route.

Grant Freking: (03:28)
And Sophie, for students who might be interested in going to the sales expo, what's the experience like as someone who's gone to a couple and plans to go to the one coming up in a couple of weeks?

Sophie Legue: (03:38)
Yeah, so it's a really great experience. I mean, I remember going to my first one and honestly, when you're kind of younger, you don't take it as seriously. At least for me, I was like, I'm a freshman, I have plenty of time. But I would encourage, even if you're a freshman, sophomore, going to really try and make connections, network, building your network earlier than later is gonna be very beneficial when you're, I know internships are now required for the incoming freshmen.

Grant Freking: (04:04)
mm-hmm .

Sophie Legue: (04:05)
So it's great to get your foot in the door, even if they're only looking for sophomores, juniors, getting your foot in the door, making your name known to some of these companies, like early on, is gonna help you in the long run. So I say just make the most of your experience, try and make it to every single company if you can, and be open to different opportunities and different companies because there's a lot out there and um, some really great people to meet. So.

Grant Freking: (04:27)
Sure. And I imagine it also helps break down some of the barriers and of the fear factor that maybe goes along to talking with strangers, but strangers who are also could be offering you a job.

Jennifer Barlow: (04:36)
Yes.

Grant Freking: (04:36)
Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (04:38)
Absolutely. And I will say with the sales expo, I limit the number of companies that are there, so I'll cap it at about 50.

Grant Freking: (04:43)
Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (04:43)
Because I don't want it to be too overwhelming for students to walk into the great hall and, you know, you hear that buzz, but all that excitement.

Grant Freking: (04:51)
Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (04:51)
Uh, but it's also from only from one to 4:00 PM and so it's a very tight timeframe, which I think benefits the students as well as the recruiters because people aren't exhausted. Right.

Grant Freking: (05:01)
, right. Yeah. Yeah. There's only so much talking everyone can do.

Jennifer Barlow: (05:04)
Exactly. Yes.

Grant Freking: (05:04)
Three hours sounds good. Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (05:05)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (05:05)
Sophie, let's talk a little bit about the why for how you ended up involved with the sales center and just sales academically in general. So walk me through your academic path and how you got the Lindner and then found your way into the, the, the sales realm.

Sophie Legue: (05:18)
Yeah, absolutely. So actually my older sister went to the University of Cincinnati and I visited a few times and I was like, this is a place I could see myself going to school. So I decided to come here. And, you know, business has been in the family. My parents both work in a business setting, so it's kind of what I've known. And I was like, you know what? Marketing is a very broad, um, major. So I was like, you know what, let's just start with this and see where it goes. And, um, my dad actually is kind of like my mentor. He kind of has been helping me figure out my career path. And when I was talking to him about what I wanted to do, uh, he was like, you know, sales, I have some buddies that are in sales that really enjoy it.

Sophie Legue: (05:56)
'cause you know, I'm a people person. I enjoy talking to people. And, um, I didn't really wanna be sitting behind a computer on an Excel sheet for my career, so,

Grant Freking: (06:03)
yep. It's not for everyone.

Sophie Legue: (06:04)
Um, exactly. So, uh, you know, I, I started thinking about sales and then I declared a sales minor and professional selling minor. And, um, after that, that was around my sophomore year. And then I heard about the varsity sales team and, you know, I was a little unsure, but I decided to go to one of the practices and I ended up loving it. I mean, uh, junior year my, um, second semester I got to, um, compete in the Toledo competition, which I was actually chosen in as an alternate. And the alternate basically is just a backup competitor if the competitors aren't able to compete. But they, I was put in a raffle and I was chosen to compete.

Sophie Legue: (06:44)
And, um, it was the best experience I've had honestly in college.

Grant Freking: (06:47)
Wow.

Sophie Legue: (06:47)
Um, it, I learned a lot from it. I learned, you know, going into that setting is really scary, being with someone that actually works for the company you're selling for. So they really know the product. And I'm sitting here like, you know, I've, I've never done this before, so it was really scary and I didn't have a ton of time to prepare 'cause you know, I wasn't planning on competing. So,

Grant Freking: (07:09)
yeah.

Sophie Legue: (07:09)
Um, but it ended up being kind of like the switch for me when I knew that sales is what I wanna do. I'm like, I could really envision myself doing this as a career. And so the more I, I was on the sales team, I enjoyed it, got very involved. And I competed last semester, um, the spring or fall semester of my senior year.

Grant Freking: (07:29)
Mm-hmm .

Sophie Legue: (07:30)
And I competed in Wisconsin and that was a really great competition as well. Uh, we were selling Hormel ribbon pepperonis, which was very interesting and fun. Um, and

Jennifer Barlow: (07:41)
It's quite the road trip too.

Sophie Legue: (07:41)
Yes.

Jennifer Barlow: (07:41)
You have to drive up to Wisconsin for that.

Sophie Legue: (07:43)
Yes, it was, it was honestly fun. Lots of practice, lots of time to practice. So, um, that was really great. And then, uh, at the end of the semester I competed in the internal competition and I actually won my room, which is one of my goals that I had set for myself. And, uh, I was named the new student coach. So my last semester, uh, I am the new student coach for the sales team. So, um, just through all that experience, I realized that I'm really interested in sales and kind of what I want my career to be. So yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (08:14)
So a lot of, I mean, I haven't met one person that says I'm going to college to get into sales. You kind of fall into it.

Grant Freking: (08:19)
Sure. Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (08:19)
And so I always encourage students to take one of the professional selling classes because you're always selling yourself. The life skills that the students are learning here is something that you'll just take forever, no matter what business setting you're in, no matter what position you're gonna be holding, you're always gonna be, um, working with salespeople really. Right.

Grant Freking: (08:35)
Yeah, exactly. And I was, my follow up to your question was going to be if her path is similar, where students obviously, like you said, don't necessarily come in wanting to do sales, and then it's sort of like they get introduced to the sales club and the, or the sales team and then they're hooked. Maybe not quite as hooked as Sophie. 'cause she's, you might have to drag her quick and screaming away from this varsity sales team when she graduates . But is that, is that something that's comes up, there's like a similar path where students get involved that way?

Jennifer Barlow: (08:59)
Yes, so it's interesting because we've had quite a number of students that have joined their senior year.

Grant Freking: (09:03)
mm-hmm .

Jennifer Barlow: (09:04)
And they're like, dang, I wish I would've known about this sooner. And so we're always trying to get the messaging out about the varsity sales team. It is a lot of work. Uh, they meet weekly for about an hour and a half on Monday evenings in our sales lab. Um, and they're always practicing. And so it's, it's a lot of work, but they also have a lot of fun. And the friendships that they make is, is forever really. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (09:24)
Mm-hmm . And Sophie, let's transition to some of your experiential learning experience of talking co-ops, internships that you've had. Tell me, tell me about those and, and I think you've already got a full-time job lined up as, as far as I understand.

Sophie Legue: (09:34)
Yes.

Grant Freking: (09:34)
So let's hear about that too.

Sophie Legue: (09:36)
Yeah, absolutely. So my first internship was with a logistics company and, um, I got a lot of experience, you know, talking to customers and well, potential customers.

Grant Freking: (09:45)
Sure.

Sophie Legue: (09:45)
And just some negotiating skills. So it was really interesting setting, being full time for the first time, being in an office setting. It was very new. I had never done anything like it. So it was a really great start and a really good first, um, first step internship Yeah. To get my foot in the door. So, um, after that, you know, I actually, my current internship, I've been here, this is my second semester, mill craft paper company. I'm kind of in a customer service role right now. I'm getting to work with customers and take orders, learn the computer system, a new CRM system. And it's, um, we have customers coming in every day. I really enjoy the relationship building aspect.

Sophie Legue: (10:23)
Some of the customers that come in, I know a little bit about their life and just different things like that. So something I've really enjoyed. Um, and I was kind of thinking about what I wanted to do for full time. And, uh, I actually know a recruiter from the sales team.

Grant Freking: (10:39)
Okay.

Sophie Legue: (10:39)
Her name is Alicia Flora, and she's a recruiter for Gartner. And I have met her through many events networking with the varsity sales team. And I kind of just reached out to her. I was like, Hey, I'm interested in potentially interviewing with Gartner. And so right after that she set me up on the interview process and I had a phone call with her and I went through the interview process and I actually got the job, which is great, down in, uh, Fort Myers, Florida.

Jennifer Barlow: (11:03)
Awesome.

Grant Freking: (11:03)
Oh wow.

Jennifer Barlow: (11:05)
I know.

Sophie Legue: (11:05)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (11:05)
It'd be nicest time of year.

Jennifer Barlow: (11:06)
mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (11:07)
Yes, exactly. So I'm very excited about that. Um, it's kind of, I wouldn't say a dream company, but it was definitely the kind of company I was looking for and kind of shooting towards.

Grant Freking: (11:16)
mm-hmm .

Sophie Legue: (11:17)
So I think I'll have a good long future with them. And I've heard a lot of great things about it. So I'm very thankful to the varsity sales team for all the networking opportunities because I might have not had this opportunity without, without it. So, um, I think that's, the varsity sales team is also really great for networking and meeting, meeting different companies.

Grant Freking: (11:35)
Evidently. Well, congratulations.

Sophie Legue: (11:35)
Thank you.

Grant Freking: (11:36)
And students, yeah. The networking works, especially for the varsity sales team involvement, right?

Jennifer Barlow: (11:41)
Yes.

Grant Freking: (11:41)
What about your sales classes? I wanna hear more about the academic side of that. Could you get, provide more explanation on that? I know that we have a popular one I'm thinking of, but I'm interested in hearing your full full perspective on that.

Sophie Legue: (11:51)
Yeah, absolutely. So the first sales class I've ever taken was, uh, with Dr. Sojka. It was one of my favorite classes I've taken in college so far. She just teaches confidence, teaches you how to sell, like, you know, being confident, the posture, everything that Jennifer was talking about, earlier, it's just a really great first class and it, it really gets you excited about sales. And Dr. Sojka teaches you don't have to be going into sales to learn about sales. It's important, like Jennifer was saying, you're always selling yourself. And, um, yeah. So that was the first class that I.

Grant Freking: (12:27)
mm-hmm .

Sophie Legue: (12:27)
I had taken. And then I took a strategic selling class, which we actually got to do a case study at the end of the semester and kind of sell, uh, whatever product or service we were doing. And that was, yeah.

Grant Freking: (12:39)
Yeah, another, another hands-on learning experience.

Sophie Legue: (12:40)
Yes.

Grant Freking: (12:40)
is what I'm gathering. Yeah.

Sophie Legue: (12:42)
Yes, exactly. And that was a really great experience as well. And then now I'm currently in an insight based selling class.

Grant Freking: (12:48)
Okay.

Sophie Legue: (12:48)
Which is, um, kinda like the sales team. We do, uh, role plays, sales call, role plays. So it's a very different class, but I really enjoy it. 'cause, you know, I, I love doing role plays and practicing the selling experience. So, uh, doing that for a class is, it's challenging 'cause it is a little bit different than what we do on the sales team, but it's, it's a lot of fun and it's a new experience and you really deep dive into the real experience of being in a job and learning different selling situations. So, um, all of these classes have been really amazing and honestly they're, I know it's cheesy, but it, they're my favorite classes I've taken, so.

Grant Freking: (13:26)
mm-hmm .

Jennifer Barlow: (13:26)
That's not cheesy at all. , that's what we like to hear.

Grant Freking: (13:28)
Yeah.

Jennifer Barlow: (13:28)
I'll say the insight based selling class is the most advanced class that we have, and the intention of that is to be doing all these sales simulations. And so they'll be doing like three or four throughout the semester.

Grant Freking: (13:39)
Okay.

Jennifer Barlow: (13:39)
Um, and most of the students that are taking that class will be going into a sales role upon graduation. Mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (13:45)
Interesting. Mm-hmm . Now, how do all of this, how does all of this hands-on experiential learning opportunities translate to the new sales lab we have up in the building that I think is being dedicated the same day of the sales expo? So you set yourself up for quite the busy day there?

Jennifer Barlow: (13:57)
Absolutely. Um, we're very excited about that. Um, yeah, so the sales lab is on the third floor. Uh, we have 10 small rooms, 10 like breakout rooms.

Grant Freking: (14:05)
Mm-hmm .

Jennifer Barlow: (14:06)
Six of those have cameras in there, and we're able to record a lot of these different activities that the students are participating in. So the varsity sales team is there every Monday night. Sometimes they're recording their role plays, preparing for Toledo or the National Collegiate Sales Competition. Um, other times it's a class that's in there. And so we're recording the sales simulations and elevator pitch, possibly mock interviews. The students are able to see themselves on video, good or bad. Um, it is scary, I understand that. But they learn a lot from when they see themselves, um, the feedback how many times you say, um, yeah,

Grant Freking: (14:39)
Yeah. The, yeah. The tape doesn't lie in those scenarios. So it provides very clear, I think examples of, you know, it's like me listening back to this when, when I need to edit out a podcast episode. Right. It's just very clear of like what you need to improve on so there's no shying away from it.

Jennifer Barlow: (14:51)
Absolutely. And it's just a really great way for the students to improve their skills.

Grant Freking: (14:55)
Right. Okay. We'll end with this. We got a recruitment plug. We need more varsity sales team members. 'cause some of the key members, like, it's like Sophie are graduating out. So Sophie, why should underclassmen or even prospective students who may be listening to this podcast consider and, uh, joining the varsity sales team, even if they don't necessarily want to go into a sales related employment field post-graduation?

Sophie Legue: (15:17)
Yeah. So I think that younger students, freshmen, sophomores, should get involved early. That's something I do regret a little bit, not getting involved sooner. So I think even if it's something that you're like, I don't know too much about this, joining the varsity sales team would be a great option. First of all, you can meet a lot of people get really good experience. Um, and, you know, maybe you start out just competing in the internal competition just here at UC, but then if you stay on the team a little bit longer, you can go and compete at Toledo or the national competitions that we have. So you can really see your progression and your growth a lot more. And, you know, a lot of people only join their junior year. Like me, I, I joined my junior year and I'm like, I wish I would've known about it a little bit sooner. Your progression that you'll see joining sooner is really gonna pay off in the long run. And, um, also I think I learned a lot about interview skills through the sales team as well. So I think,

Grant Freking: (16:11)
And those are applicable to all majors no matter what you're graduating with.

Sophie Legue: (16:14)
Exactly.

Jennifer Barlow: (16:14)
Mm-hmm .

Sophie Legue: (16:14)
Exactly. So, you know, being in that professional setting with an executive person sitting across from you, it's a scary moment. Interviews are scary, but I really did learn a lot of great skills from, uh, the sales team and just being able to talk to professionals and, and that kind of thing. So, um, you can just get a lot. There's so much that you get out of the varsity sales team and, uh, I, I highly encourage young students to get involved.

Jennifer Barlow: (16:38)
Well, and the other thing with varsity sales team and with the various activities that we have in the sales center, I'm always bringing our corporate partners and employers into the classroom to work with all these activities, work with the students constantly. And so our, the employers are having a great face time with the students and the students are getting more comfortable in speaking with recruiters and, and developing that confidence. And with the Varsity sales team, you're gonna keep seeing those same people again and again as they're getting more involved, um, with our students.

Grant Freking: (17:06)
My thanks to Jennifer and Sophie for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. Remember, the Spring Sales Expo will be held Wednesday, March 5th, in Tangeman University Center's Great Hall on the campus of University Cincinnati. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five-star review for Bearcats Mean Business on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. In true sales fashion, I'm gonna let Jennifer have the last word before we sign off.

Jennifer Barlow: (17:31)
Absolutely. I would encourage everybody to take a sales class, take that professional selling class, learn some of these skills, um, it's life skills and you're always selling yourself. And also join the varsity sales team.

Sophie Legue: (17:43)
Yes,

Jennifer Barlow: (17:44)


Sophie Legue: (17:44)
.

Grant Freking: (17:44)
Thanks again for being here. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.