Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00)
The Carl H. Lindner College of Business and the University of Cincinnati equipped aspiring entrepreneurs from all backgrounds with the skills, resources, and connections to launch and scale their business ideas. On this episode of Bearcats Mean Business, Charlie Breidenbach, an entrepreneurship and insurance and risk management, double major details how he embraced this entrepreneurial ethos by co-founding Greenway Asphalt Rejuvenation. Charlie is also part of the team planning the Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition conference at the 1819 Innovation Hub on May 8th. Charlie, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Charlie Breidenbach: (00:34)
Hi, Grant, really thanks for having me. I appreciate you taking the time and having me today. Uh, it's really surreal to be on this podcast considering Lindner's been such a integral part of my journey.

Grant Freking: (00:42)
Mm-hmm .

Charlie Breidenbach: (00:42)
And I love talking about what I've done so far and how I've gotten to the point where I am. So being able to share this is, uh, definitely special for me.

Grant Freking: (00:49)
Yeah, we're glad to have you here. You might have to carry me as, as listeners can probably tell, I'm a little under the weather, so Charlie's gonna carry us today. But first, let's start with your background and your two majors. Why entrepreneurship and why, uh, insurance and risk management for, for why are these two areas for you?

Charlie Breidenbach: (01:05)
Yeah, so for me and, uh, the direction and the path that I'm headed in life, uh, I kind of consider, uh, the entrepreneurship major to really be the heart of, of, of where I'm headed. And it kind of guides my ambition and it kind of guides my mindset to grow and scale things within my business and to get to the point where I want to be. And then I also wanted to figure out, hey, how can I protect that? How can I minimize my risk? And, you know, safeguard myself from all the different areas that people are coming at you from, uh, every which way in business. And I, uh, by adding on that second major for, uh, insurance and risk management, I was able to really wrap my, my head around, you know, how to minimize risk within my business and how to save and protect it.

Grant Freking: (01:41)
Right. And you mentioned added on to, were you an entrepreneurship major just to start and then you had an insurance and risk management?

Charlie Breidenbach: (01:46)
Uh, it was actually the other way around.

Grant Freking: (01:47)
Oh, oh, okay. Okay. Interesting.

Charlie Breidenbach: (01:49)
So I, yeah, I was, um, originally some of my family had been, uh, involved in the insurance space, so I added that on first and realized that, hey, I wanted to get access to the 1819 Innovation Hub.

Grant Freking: (01:58)
Okay.

Charlie Breidenbach: (01:58)
So I soon added the entrepreneurship, uh, degree.

Grant Freking: (02:01)
Nice. No, that's a great combo. Yeah. And I, you mentioned your, you have a background in family insurance. Um, is there any entrepreneurial background in your family with your friends that you kind of got the bug from? Or is this something that was like maybe spontaneous through your studies here at Lindner?

Charlie Breidenbach: (02:13)
Yeah, growing up, uh, my parents ran a ServPro, which is fire, water and damage restoration here in Cincinnati. It was a franchise for a few years. So I was really able to take inspiration from their, their growth and to watch them lead a team and grow something in, into a sustainable business. Um, but then also, uh, my partner who is in me with the asphalt rejuvenation business today, we started a, uh, window cleaning company that was originally his idea. Um, we scaled that for 18 months from my sophomore year to my junior year, and then we sold it to another window cleaning company here in Cincinnati before getting into asphalt. So he really had a, a push in me to kind of say, Hey, Charlie, let's go out and do something and let's get after what, what you've always had the ambition for.

Grant Freking: (02:50)
And you were hooked. Love it. Now, why did you come to Lindner? Are you, are you from the Cincinnati area? What, what stood out about Lindner to, I'm sure you had many other choices. What stood out about Lindner to bring you here?

Charlie Breidenbach: (03:01)
Yeah. Yeah. So I've been from Cincinnati my entire life. Um, I've always, uh, tried to make a big network here and connect with different people within the business realm. And staying here, uh, where close to my roots and, you know, close to my family for that too, has really been an integral part of, Hey, instead of going out and building something somewhere else, let's double down on what I already have.

Grant Freking: (03:19)
Okay.

Charlie Breidenbach: (03:19)
And let's build those relationships and let's build on on what I currently have and to grow from there. And I've already had an established base, so it really helps out.

Grant Freking: (03:27)
Sure, yeah. Already the established connections in the area.

Charlie Breidenbach: (03:29)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (03:29)
I understand that. Now your company is Greenway Asphalt Rejuvenation, and your differentiator is your Veritas Green, your, uh, asphalt rejuvenator. How did you stumble into the asphalt business? You mentioned the window cleaning business. How did you transition into asphalt?

Charlie Breidenbach: (03:43)
Yes. I never, never really expected to transition into an infrastructure solutions company. Um, but we've, um, connected with, uh, someone who is the investor behind, uh, Veritas Green and what it is today, and they were looking to expand their operations out here to the Midwest. Um, and we were saying we were getting out the window cleaning business and we said, Hey, we're looking to make investments elsewhere. We're looking to grow a company and a business here in Cincinnati, and I think this is a really perfect match where we can take your product and, and bring it out here and show it what can, what it can do for the Midwest communities.

Grant Freking: (04:14)
What have you learned so far about the process of starting this business from scratch? That's sort of the ups and downs of the process along the way?

Charlie Breidenbach: (04:20)
Yeah, definitely. The biggest thing for me has been patience. Um, I mean, it's a, it's an, it's an absolute roller coaster, the way you go from deals falling through to deal that the deals you don't expect to sign, they're the ones that are signing. And then also just dealing with all kinds of vendors and all kinds of logistics behind getting labor team together. And, um, yeah, it really teaches you patience. And I had to wait a long time to get to the point, uh, where I want to be today and where I am today. But at the end of the day, uh, it's just putting one foot in front of the other and saying, Hey, how can I get done what I need to do today in order to accomplish what I need from a year from now?

Grant Freking: (04:53)
Sure. And I know Cincinnati itself prides itself on its different neighborhoods, and that's a great thing, but I'm sure that also presents your company with some challenges on different zoning and different arrangements with local governments. So how has it been kind of navigating that nest and sort of making sure you get clearance that different businesses and, uh, how, how's that process working out?

Charlie Breidenbach: (05:10)
Yeah, for Veritas Green, um, we're actually able to lay this product down on all public roadways. We can lay it down on municipal roadways as well as private HOA and COA communities. So those all vary greatly in the sense of how they look at their, at their asphalt assets. So going from each one, um, has been difficult because they all have their different, uh, spaces and how they think that asphalt should be solved and how asphalt should be maintained. So we're almost having to go out and educate these people on a, on a level of, Hey, here's the best solution at this time for the current conditions of, of your product.

Grant Freking: (05:43)
Right now, you're a student operating a full-time business. How are you, how are you balancing school and running a business?

Charlie Breidenbach: (05:50)
Yeah, so that, that's definitely a tough aspect of my life. Um, but to be quite honest, the business, the business does come first. Um, but that doesn't say that, you know, the school isn't a close second.

Grant Freking: (05:59)
Mm-hmm .

Charlie Breidenbach: (06:00)
I have everything on a tight schedule and I operate, um, on a very, um,

Grant Freking: (06:05)
Maybe, maybe a little less hours of sleep is what it sounds like too.

Charlie Breidenbach: (06:07)
Yeah. Yeah. A little , you can get a little bit less hours of sleep. I definitely didn't get as much as I should have last night. Um, but yeah, just sticking to the schedule and knowing what you have to get done each day, like I said earlier. So that way when you're building it out over the long run, you're building, stacking these wins every single day.

Grant Freking: (06:22)
mm-hmm .

Charlie Breidenbach: (06:23)
And you're doing what you need to get done. It really grows and builds. And then you look back and you say, wow, I've achieved all this.

Grant Freking: (06:28)
Right. What have you learned about yourself just like, personally through the process of trying to do the, trying to weigh this balance of school in one hand and running the business in the other hand?

Charlie Breidenbach: (06:37)
Yeah, it's definitely pushed me to kind of mature mentally a lot quicker than, uh, some of the, uh, other peers I would say. But I think that's because it just goes back to the rollercoaster of, you know, moving things up and down and having to do so many things within a day. And then also keeping your, your eye on the ball. You know, keeping your eye on the future and, and what you need to accomplish and not getting stuck in those little ruts that, that come about on a weekly basis.

Grant Freking: (06:59)
Right. We talked off air before, before we start, we hit record about your involvement with the Center for Entrepreneurship. Can you tell listeners about how you kind of got involved there, how they've helped your business and how you're also helping out, uh, with some of their other programming?

Charlie Breidenbach: (07:10)
Yeah. So when I added my entrepreneurship major, I got access to the, uh, 1819 Innovation Hub. Uh, I was taking a class there, it was, uh, intro to Innovation and Alex Burkhart was teaching it, and I really connected with this class and Alex Burkhart. I'd recommend this class for, uh, any business student here at Lindner. Uh, it was my favorite, and it really was able to, uh, Alex lit another fire inside of me that I already had, but he honestly grew it to be even bigger, and he was able to push me to grow and to think differently and to look at innovation differently. Um, so from there, my, uh, experience with them grew and I got involved through the, um, through the space there with Kate Harmon as well. And we're going to be heading up the Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition Conference on May 8th.

Grant Freking: (07:54)
And so for those who don't know, what is Entrepre entrepreneurship through acquisition and what is the conference a detail about that subject area?

Charlie Breidenbach: (08:01)
Yeah, so entrepreneurship through acquisition is instead of starting your own business, it's going out and finding something that's, you know, already doing great. It's already, I got a great market share. It's already performing, uh, really well, but how can we innovate on, on what they're currently doing and how can we grow and scale what they're currently doing? And for entrepreneurs that don't want to go out and start something new, there's, there's millions of options out there and businesses for sale, and there's never been a bigger time to buy a business. So if you want to go out there and do that, um, we are able to show you what the, what the system around that looks like and what all the parallels and how you can align everything to.

Grant Freking: (08:34)
mm-hmm .

Charlie Breidenbach: (08:35)
Buy a business and get it to grow. And we're gonna have all those parallels there at the conference on May 8th.

Grant Freking: (08:40)
Excellent. Now, Charlie, I think there might be a couple of misconceptions about entrepreneurship just in general for those that maybe want to get involved in, if they're a prospective student, maybe they're a current student here looking to maybe shift their subject of area of study. I think when I, when I think, at least when I think of entrepreneurship, I think of maybe someone just founding a company instead of someone that can just, maybe not be the founder, but join the company or like you just mentioned, join through ETA entrepreneurship through acquisition. Is that like a, a maybe a misnomer out there about entrepreneurship?

Charlie Breidenbach: (09:08)
Yeah, certainly. Um, I don't think that anyone who wants to get involved in entrepreneurship has to go out and start their business from scratch. Like I said, that can be extremely hard.

Grant Freking: (09:16)
Mm-hmm .

Charlie Breidenbach: (09:17)
And with so many opportunities out there to buy businesses, to network, to make connections with existing businesses, even where you can have access to their products and pushing them in areas where they're not currently, uh, being sold or things like that. You can go out and you can create these solutions. You can create these networks, and you can build these ideas very holistically of how you can support other businesses and gain access to their ecosystem and their products and, and build from there.

Grant Freking: (09:40)
Right on. Now you mentioned Alex Burkhart. Are there any other lender professors or staff members that have been not only influential in helping you build out your company, but in your lender studies in general?

Charlie Breidenbach: (09:49)
Yeah, certainly. Uh, my New Venture Creations teacher, uh, Greg Lechner, has been very influential in giving me ideas and helping me work through different scenarios, uh, within my business. Uh, he was a part of LensCrafters here in Cincinnati, so he's, uh, got a really good head for what that big corporation, what that big business looks like and what those contracts can look like and what those, how to minimize your risk when it comes to different liabilities, working with different, uh, vendors and different customers and that sort of thing. And then also, uh, Derek Shewmon, uh, the owner of Homestretch, he's been very influential in my, uh, journey as well too. I'm taking his class this semester. And, uh, that's another thing. It's just been, he's been able to help me, uh, work through some different scenarios, gimme ideas, and also bounce things off of what he, what his business is.

Grant Freking: (10:34)
Right. So what are your personal plans for the future? You mentioned you're, you're, we're nearing the graduation finish line for you. What are your plans for the future and, and plans for the company?

Charlie Breidenbach: (10:43)
Yeah, so the plans for the company are to, you know, build here in Cincinnati and continue to expand throughout Ohio. Uh, Ohio is one of the biggest states for asphalt rejuvenation and asphalt maintenance. And that's just due to the market share and the amount of, uh, maintenance dollars put towards, uh, these pavement assets here. But we want to grow and expand to the Midwest. Um, typically speaking, our type of company only operates, uh, during the summer months and during the spring months, but we wanna operate year round. So having those states down south, we're able to kind of migrate in the winter and continue our revenue and continue our growth down there is crucial to building our business. And, um, you know, I'd like to eventually go all the way out to California, to be quite honest with you. I wanna push this product across the United States. I think it's a game changer. I think it's the biggest disruptor that's ever come to asphalt. And if we continue to educate and show these municipalities and these HOAs and these COA communities, uh, what it can do to extend the lifecycle of their asphalt, it's really going to be a game changer.

Grant Freking: (11:39)
All right. Let's close with this. What about some general advice for the students that they maybe don't even have to be studying entrepreneurship. You're, as we mentioned, you're nearing graduation. When you kind of look back at your lender career, what's some like, general advice and tips for current even or even prospective students?

Charlie Breidenbach: (11:55)
Yeah, I think I kind of touched on it earlier, like the mindset behind entrepreneurship can be applied to everything. Yeah. Like, just put your best foot forward. Life is a roller coaster, and I know some people think I'm kind of crazy to say it, but if you're living, you're all in. So why not just play the most wonderful game that you can every single day? And when you keep stacking those wins and keep playing the way that you do at the peak of your ability, then you're gonna be the best person that you can be.

Grant Freking: (12:19)
Alright, my thanks to Charlie Breidenbach for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. Looking to start your own business or get involved in a startup? Get involved with the Center for Entrepreneurship. Contact them at business.uc.edu. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five star review for Bearcats Mean Business on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
The mission of the UC Center for Business Analytics is to connect, teach, learn about, and promote the application of business analytics and AI through a community of industry and academic experts. The center executes this mission through a range of trainings, engagements, and events. And one of the center's big annual events is fast approaching, the Analytics Summit.

Grant Freking: (00:20)
The 2025 Analytics Summit will be held May 6th at the Sharonville Convention Center in Cincinnati. This year's theme is Follow the Money. The Summit includes four keynote speakers, 15 breakout sessions, and a networking reception. On this episode of Bearcats Mean Business, Center for Business Analytics Executive Director Tim Cholvat is joined by Todd James, a seasoned C-Suite technology executive, board member, senior advisor and business unit leader, who is now the founder and CEO of Aurora Insights. Tim and Todd are here to discuss the Analytics Summit, where Todd will host a talk entitled, Unlocking Business Potential with AI, Insights from Industry Leaders. Take it away, Tim and Todd.

Tim Cholvat: (01:02)
Hello Todd. Great to have you here today.

Todd James: (01:04)
Likewise, glad to be here, Tim, thanks to have me.

Tim Cholvat: (01:07)
We're excited to have you as a speaker in the industry alignment track at the Analytics Summit this year. Can you please tell us a bit about your background, why you chose the title Unlocking Business Potential with AI Insights from industry leaders for your talk?

Todd James: (01:23)
Happy to, uh, you know, I'll start with the background, uh, throughout my career. Uh, and it's a really interesting time that we're in now. I've always kind of operated at the intersection of business and technology, so I've had business roles where I'm leveraging technology to support my p and l, to support my function, but I've also led technology business units as a CDO and a CTO, uh, at large organizations. So, um, and from a, a progression, I've had large roles at Fidelity Investments where I help them build out their AI journey, uh, leading and building out global analytics capabilities for that company, as well as, uh, at 84.51 and Kroger, where I was Chief Data and Technology Officer for 84.51. And I led the AI agenda and enterprise data for Kroger. So had an opportunity to, uh, see hands on and, and stand accountable for, for analytics advancement within, you know, some very large firms.

Todd James: (02:20)
The reason I chose this talk is we're at a pivotal moment. We're at a once in a lifetime global re-platforming event that's gonna be transformative for business. And a lot of cases, it, it, it, it's talked about from a technology angle, and it gives the impression that it's technology led, um, when in reality it's technology enabled. So what I want to have in this discussion is a candid dialogue with the attendees at the conference where I can share, and we can have a discussion around what are those things that the business needs to do to be able to truly set themselves up to gain, uh, a competitive advantage. At the end of the day, transformation doesn't happen because of technology. It's enabled through technology, but the business is where the change has to happen. So that's what we're gonna talk about.

Tim Cholvat: (03:09)
Yeah, and as you say, this is an inflection point and really through technology over the last 30, 40 years, there's probably been a half a dozen critical inflection points, and I think many of us feel that this is the point right now. And I think you, you captured it well to say that, uh, how do, how is this gonna affect the businesses going forward?

Todd James: (03:29)
A hundred percent. Right. And I, we, we have an opportunity, right? If you're, if you're a business leader out there, um, I, I would say that the time to watch is over. Uh, your competitors are moving. Uh, the way that this technology works is there is an additive effect. So the sooner that you're able to get into it, you start to influence decision points throughout your organization, through analytics and data, the more, the more advantage you're gonna be able to get, um, in an aggregate fashion across your business. So time starts now, and I think that's, that, that's part of what I wanna reinforce to the dialogue that we're having.

Tim Cholvat: (04:07)
Yeah. And we all know that the, uh, the continuum from early adopters right through to laggards, and it feels like we're, we're in the middle of that. Maybe just past a bit past the, the crest of it.

Todd James: (04:19)
I would say we're past the crest of it. But when you start to look at companies that have leaned in and you start to look at the data, you see an increase in total shareholder return across the board for those companies that are leading. I mean, it's more than two x increase. For those companies that are, um, really leading in ai, you're also seeing greater productivity. I think the estimate now is on average around 40% increase in productivity. You're seeing greater customer engagement, greater loyalty. So there is a measured difference when you start to look, and that's not just companies adopting ai. What I'm talking about is the difference between those that are dipping their toe in the water and those that are doing laps.

Tim Cholvat: (05:02)
Yep, exactly. So what do you want the analytics summit attendees to take away from your talk?

Todd James: (05:08)
I, I think what'll be important for them to take away from the talk is a few things. One of which is I think it'll be important to have a foundational understanding of what AI is, not just from a technical perspective, but what it means from a business perspective. And at the highest level, I think it'll be important for them to understand that AI is really about using data to inform and activate decision points. That it is not in a solution in itself, but it's an enabler that drives business outcomes. And I think it's really important to get a realistic view of how AI can start to have a true, meaningful bottom line value across the company. And one of the one, one of the areas I was thinking about it last night that I've seen in the analogy that I'll use is I had a discussion with my, uh, doctor on Friday, annual physical, and we were talking, clearly can see how my physical went.

Todd James: (06:05)
And, uh, we were talking a little bit about, uh, weightlifting and, and the benefit there. And, and I saw some analogies. So if when you look at exercising and weightlifting, you don't see a return after a week. It's a little bit, you're tearing down muscle, it's rebuilding, but across six to 12 months, your body starts to change if you're eating right, if you're exercising. I think one of the challenges that we've had with ai, and one of the myths is because it seems magical, even though it's math, there's been an expectation in business that I put AI out there and I see an immediate material transformational bottom line impact, when in reality what it's about is influencing individual data points. Whereas over time, that becomes an additive benefit if you're tracking it. If you're measuring it and you're doing it right. And what I've seen a lot of companies do is start and then throw up their arms and say, Hey, I'm not seeing the value here. Is this worth investing in where other companies are continuing to lean in, have robust measures around it, and are seeing transformative bottom line value, and those are gonna be the companies that are competing in the future and winning.

Tim Cholvat: (07:13)
Yeah. And it, it's the old battleship analogy, right? That if you're dealing with, let's, let's go back to your Kroger 84,.51 days. Yeah. I mean, uh, a couple of hundred thousand, uh, employees, you can probably tell me the more accurate size, but it's about

Todd James: (07:27)
440. Yeah, yeah. Thousand.

Tim Cholvat: (07:29)
But turning that ship when, when you're dealing with, uh, upwards of $150 billion in revenue is, is enormous. And, and that's, uh, that's a perfect example of, uh, of, of that.

Todd James: (07:43)
The beauty there, it's also an environment, and this is something we'll talk about in the session, where you have high volume decisions and you have the data to support it, or you can develop the data to support it. Um, in a large company like that, small changes can make big differences.

Tim Cholvat: (07:58)
Yep, yep.

Todd James: (08:00)
And we'll also talk a little bit about too, uh, say you don't have the kind of volumes that $150 billion firm does. Where do you look to be able to get that kind of meaningful value that resonates and shows up on your bottom line? It depends on industries, but where you choose to start this process has a pretty big impact on how you start to see the value in the return.

Tim Cholvat: (08:20)
So let's go to some specifics. So how, how do you see that industry leaders are using AI driven analytics to gain a competitive edge? And, and do you have, do you have a good example that you've run across that, that you can, uh, you can demonstrate that encapsulates maybe, uh, some of that, uh, leaning in?

Todd James: (08:39)
Yeah. Here, here's what I would say. I think first and foremost, what I've seen most is within companies, I see pockets of excellence. You're not seeing a whole lot of companies that have it across the board. However you are seeing some, and the company that comes to mind most often for me is Amazon. If you think about the diversity of their industries and how they are able to build on top of a cloud-based technology platform with an incredible data asset and robust analytics, they are in a, they are the poster child for a digital-based business that is able to transform and create new business models. And, and I had an opportunity, uh, a few years ago, actually, no, it was about a year ago. I went out to their most modern fulfillment facility at the time in San Diego. I, I was in retail. So you're in a lot of different fulfillments, uh, facilities, and this was a tremendous opportunity with Amazon.

Todd James: (09:37)
And, and if you just look at the amount of automation that they had in play and their ability to collect data, both for the use cases in the facility, but also for potential use cases outside, this is a company that is clearly thinking about data in everything they do. So that's an example of an organization. I think, you know, there are other examples that I get excited about. So to get a little bit more granular, um, if you know the, the carbon neutral market for products. To be able to do that, right, you really need to be able to have an unbroken data thread all the way from the feed, all the way to the time it goes on the shelf. And part of this is carbon credits. Part of this is freshness, part of this is supply chain. But if you just think about, Hey, I want a carbon neutral milk product, something that sounds very good.

Todd James: (10:33)
Companies that are looking at, that are looking very granular at how do I capture the data to be able to prove the chain of custody all the way throughout the entire production process for the ingredients that go in so that I can truly demonstrate that this is carbon neutral product and I can claim the carbon credit. So we're seeing areas of industry shifting that are, traditionally, you're talking dairy farms, you're talking feedstock are becoming more and more automated and more and more data driven. So I, I think you're seeing it across the board, but there's, there's, I mean, we could talk for an hour about different examples. Maybe we'll spend some time at the, uh, offsite doing that.

Tim Cholvat: (11:10)
Well, and, and the integration of supply chain, right? Be it the them internal or external supply chains, right? Um, auto sector, um, there's been a lot of discussion over the last few months around the integration of auto sector between, uh, a fully integrated, uh, vertically, uh, integrated auto sector as oppo or I should say auto manufacturing as opposed to, uh, ones that have specialty one specialty, uh, manufacturers outside that for parts. And that's that component of integrating through that whole supply chain is, is really critical for success.

Todd James: (11:46)
A hundred, a hundred percent. It, uh, you know, what I would say is when you look at the supply chain and at a very high level, um, it brings predictability to flow, and it also gives you a better basis for prescriptive decision making when things change. And that's the power of an integrated supply chain.

Tim Cholvat: (12:05)
So, so let's turn to obstacles since we're we're.

Todd James: (12:08)
mm-hmm .

Tim Cholvat: (12:08)
Sort of touching on some of that. So what do you see as the biggest obstacles, obstacles that businesses are facing when integrating AI into their analytics strategy? And in analytics and ai, you really can't separate them because they, they, they live in the same zone, but how can industry and companies overcome some of those obstacles?

Todd James: (12:31)
Yeah, I would say first and foremost, don't try and integrate AI into your analytics strategy. Integrate your analytics and AI strategy into your business strategy. Um, you know, I I, I think at the end of the day, one of the biggest obstacles that, uh, companies face as to treat AI as an end onto itself. And, and you see that that was huge, uh, right after OpenAI announced their chatGPT launch, um, I think in the first quarter of 2023. The tech giants alone said AI about 168 times in their earnings calls. And then you stop counting right across industry. So, you know, I I, I think there's been a lot of hype around this, and I, it, it, what's important for business leaders is don't lose track of business fundamentals. What are the challenges and problems that you're trying to solve? And what you're really looking for is if you can automate it, if it's deterministic, if it's a quick to automated, we have that technology.

Todd James: (13:35)
We've had process improvement, lean six sigma since what, the fifties Right? That we've been implementing that dem throughout.

Tim Cholvat: (13:41)
Deming.

Todd James: (13:41)
Yeah, of course. Duran, all of it.

Tim Cholvat: (13:43)
Yep.

Todd James: (13:43)
And so, you know, the ability to, those tools are there. Now we have another tool, and that tool fits in the gap of I have a person making judgment decisions. And the goal is to convert that to a prediction problem. And where you have data and where you have high volume, that is where you have an opportunity to apply this tool. So you start with the business problem, you look at the, and you figure out how AI can fit into it, but it's really about impacting either improving or activating decision points through data and analytics. And if you keep that in mind, you're gonna drive value. There's a lot we can talk about, about how do you track, how do you drive, how do you hold accountability for it. But my, the biggest misstep I've seen is AI for itself as an outcome, when really it is, we're having a business discussion. AI is an element of a solution, and it is embedded part of our strategy being talked about by business leaders with support from your AI leadership and your data leadership, not the other way around.

Tim Cholvat: (14:49)
Yeah. And, and there's, there's such a, uh, broad spectrum of, uh, integration or people as you, you talked about putting their toes in the water versus leaning in, right? And some people are really at that, putting their toe in the water right now. And, and so if you are, if you're talking or advising a business leader at this point of a company that maybe hasn't quite leaned into it yet, what would you say the first steps they should take? And what are the common mistakes that they should avoid? You've touched on some of that, but maybe, maybe someone who really hasn't gone into it yet. Yeah,

Todd James: (15:25)
I, for getting out of the gate, I, you know, I think there are two cla I I see two problems in, in, there are two challenges that exist in the, the business marketplace right now, the broader marketplace. One is what you described, how do I get started? The other is, Hey, I've gotten started and I'm either not seeing value that I expected, or I don't know how to scale this. So back to your question around that first problem, I, everywhere I've worked, and as I've looked across companies, I think the good news is there's a consistency to what works. And getting that initial project off the ground doesn't mean that you're gonna be a successful transformative AI company, but you have to do it to start. I think the first thing is nothing happens if there is not top-down support. If the CEO and his or her team is not talking about this in onboard, in modeling, it's not gonna happen.

Todd James: (16:20)
'cause this is about transformation more than it's technology. Like if you ask me it's 40% really hard technology, 60% organizational dynamics and change. So time with that leadership team, how you do that, we can talk about, but that needs to be there. The modeling and the buy-in and the messaging from top of the house. The second thing, pick a use case. Pick a leader that wants to take a risk, find an area that has enough data to solve a problem that can be solved through an analytics. Back to that. Are we going to inform or activate a decision point? I have the data, do it, and then put your head down and demonstrate that it works. Create a champion.

Tim Cholvat: (17:08)
Yeah. And, and, and many folks that I talk to sometimes lean into the technology first and they get, they get enamored with, uh, what the latest release is, what the latest, uh, announcements are, uh, the amount that the press is covering. A specific element, but I think you touched on it, is that look for the business case and then apply the technology.

Todd James: (17:35)
And I will add one more thing. Look for the business case, apply the technology, make sure you're measuring and capturing the value. The last point seems like what company does a project and doesn't capture the value. But I, I talked to a lot of companies, and I went through this myself, where, um, if you look at the copilot coding, the paired programming, you, you hear some out of Silicon Valley saying up to 70% efficiency. You hear other companies saying, I'm not seeing it in the budget. But if you measure it and you're rigorous around what is the actual time that's being saved, using old operations management practices to do it, you can then apply that, identify it in the budget, and reapply it from the budget. That's what I did. And we saw a material, uh, uh, uh, uh, efficiency, that we were able to apply to growth. But if you don't measure it, it gets lost in the ether. And I think that's a big part of it.

Tim Cholvat: (18:35)
And at one point, especially around your top title of unlocking business potential with ai, you talked about top down leadership.

Todd James: (18:41)
mm-hmm .

Tim Cholvat: (18:43)
Um, and then you, then you mentioned organizational change. Um, I would say that certainly led by top-down leadership, but you have to have top-down leadership, next-level leadership, middle management leadership, and individual contributor, individual contributor contribution and buy-in if you're gonna make this successful. 'cause any one of those levels can resist. Right?

Todd James: (19:09)
A a hundred percent. And it's, do you wanna, uh, at the conference, maybe we could team up. 'cause I think you, you, uh, you raised a great point. What, what I would say is you get the top down. I've had, uh, and I give this example often when I, when I speak about, uh, how do you know when you've made the turn and when you're, you're getting the traction. And I'll give you two examples. One was from retail. My last organization, um, I was adamant that data science would go out and work in the stores. Um, I went out and did it, which did two things for me. Gave me great insights into, let me know if the data science component didn't work. I really wasn't good at what they did in the stores

Tim Cholvat: (19:50)
Working, working at cash register. Yeah,

Todd James: (19:51)
Yeah. You know, I, I, I, I did a thing and, and this poor lady looked at me and just said, I have to do it again. I mean, she was so disappointed in me,

Todd James: (19:58)
and, and I just felt horrible. But, uh, you know, we went out there and it's interesting. We, we forced that kind of business intimacy. And I went out one day and I, there was a business director and my vice president of data science, and I asked a technical question and the business director answered it. Then I asked a, uh, a business question, and my data science VP answered it. And I walked away saying, this is gonna work. They, they're embedded with each other and they get it. Another example from financial services was we were doing transaction processing changes, and I came down, I talked to the woman who was actually gonna be impacted by it. They were involved in the project throughout, and that's important. And I asked her how it's going, and she said, Todd, you know, I used to be a transaction processor, but now I own a micro bot. I make it better and it makes me better. Those are the kind of comments to get the buy-in. And when the people that are affected by the work, if you don't involve them, it's not gonna work. They can opt out. And they'll do it.

Tim Cholvat: (20:58)
And just like any organizational change, you need to find those champions, don't you? You nailed it. And, and, and inflection points, if I look back at, and

Todd James: (21:06)
By the way, the champions aren't the ones that sit in the big buildings.

Tim Cholvat: (21:09)
No.

Todd James: (21:09)
With the offices.

Tim Cholvat: (21:10)
No.

Todd James: (21:10)
They're on the ground level.

Tim Cholvat: (21:12)
That's exactly right. And they're influencing their peers and colleagues. Right?

Todd James: (21:14)
A 100 percent.

Tim Cholvat: (21:14)
Exactly. Um, the other part you mentioned there around barriers was data.

Todd James: (21:19)
Yep.

Tim Cholvat: (21:19)
Uh, and the role of data quality and governance is a big aspect here. Um, AI is only as good as the data's trained on, as.

Todd James: (21:28)
we mm-hmm.

Tim Cholvat: (21:29)
As we all know, right?

Todd James: (21:30)
Mm-hmm .

Tim Cholvat: (21:30)
Um, what steps should organizations possibly consider to ensure high quality, reliable data that helps them progress with an AI strategy?

Todd James: (21:39)
The first thing I am going to say is counter to probably everything that you're gonna hear from others. I, the, the common conventional wisdom is make that big investment, get your data clean, get everything in place. The challenge I've had is no one's willing to make that investment until they see the value. Um, you know, I spent, uh, uh, at my in financial services waiting about 24 months for technology to put a data platform together that was gonna answer all our problems for data science. That got to a point, wasn't done, and we realized that what the data scientists needed was different than what the technology group did. So what we did instead, line up your use cases, figure out that set of high value use cases that has common data elements, and fix the data as you drive value. So kind of take that use case by use case approach to fixing the data is what I found worked in retail and works in financial services. It does two things. One, you gotta fix the data one way or the other. And two, you're driving material economic benefit, which gives you the proof points to be able to request the investment that you're gonna need to make those broader investments. Now, I've talked to private companies that say, look, we spent $3 billion on a data platform over the last few years. That is a tough thing to do. And lower margin businesses and public companies.

Tim Cholvat: (23:11)
Sure, especially in retail, where you're, where you're dealing with, uh, splits of pennies.

Todd James: (23:15)
Yep.

Tim Cholvat: (23:15)
Um, and, and, and if I can read into that, what you're really advocating is more of an agile approach as opposed to a waterfall approach.

Todd James: (23:25)
A hundred percent.

Tim Cholvat: (23:25)
Yeah. And those waterfall approaches of, of, uh, a huge multimillion dollar, uh, projects that go into data organizations, data organization, can go on for a long time. And sometimes the people who are investing the money in that get weary and they get weary as to, as you said, where's my return? And after two years of explaining to the CEO that yeah, just trust me, it, uh, it can get it, it can get a bit tiring.

Todd James: (23:56)
And, and, and I, you know, I I, I think too, you're gonna talk to a lot of people there is, uh, what would they say the average tenure for a chief data officer? I think it's around two years. I, I think this is part of the reason why, um, if you're not showing value in a meaningful and material way within two, two years, it's very difficult not just to justify the project, but to justify the position.

Tim Cholvat: (24:18)
Let's talk about different industries. You've taught. You've, you've touched on a few of them. Do you see different approaches across different industries and maybe sectors? So, uh, what are some of the key considerations that businesses, businesses should keep in mind when aligning their AI strategies to their specific industry?

Todd James: (24:37)
I, I, I think there is a difference, whether you're public or private. There, there's some common themes, right? Good business is good business no matter what your industry is. And I think there's difference across industries, uh, where I like to approach it, keep your eye on the p and l, approach it from the p and l. There's certain industries, if you're looking for a big meaningful material return, where if it's a larger-margin business going after customer engagement, increasing your revenue through greater engagement, greater sales, can be a very good place to start. There are other places where you may actually get a bigger lift if you are on paper-thin margins and you're looking at an EBITDA return to focus on productivity and streamlining your, your backend processes. So I think, you know, if you look at the p and l, it's gonna tell you where to hunt. It's not just speci. You're gonna see trends across industries and within industries, but what more important, you're gonna find out where you have those opportunities within your business. Where do you have goes back to those big pocket of high volume judgment decisions that you can influence and enhance through data and analytics? That's what you're looking for in your p and l. And, and so that's somewhat company-specific, but you do find general trends from an industry to industry perspective.

Tim Cholvat: (26:01)
And, and that's exactly what I was gonna, where I was gonna go on that, is that if you look across industries, be it healthcare, retail, manufacturing, um, there are some, besides the specific companies within an industry, from from early adopters to laggards, there's entire industries that are, and especially, um, in something like, uh, a manufacturing that can't necessarily pivot, right?

Todd James: (26:26)
Yeah.

Tim Cholvat: (26:26)
Because they have huge investments of, of, of production lines that they have to possibly incorporate, um, or in, uh, healthcare where they have to worry about, uh, risk of, uh, of patient outcomes. Right? And, and I think that plays into it as well.

Todd James: (26:41)
Yeah. There's a regulatory landscape that I think you're, you're alluding to that, that that plays pretty big within there. What I would say, though, I, the magnitude and the opportunity, you, you, you, you work in a regulatory environment. You know, I came from financial services, I've worked in healthcare. Uh, the rules are different, but the people in that space also have an understanding how to optimize within that regulatory, uh, regime too. So I don't, I wouldn't where I would push back, I wouldn't use it as an opportunity to say, our industry isn't going to be as disrupted because of regulatory barriers. I think it's gonna be disrupted in different ways. The the other thing that I would say too is there are areas too where the nature of their offering creates, I mean, there, there are new offerings that wouldn't have existed without ai.

Tim Cholvat: (27:32)
Oh, and that's new offerings that come out every month, my goodness.

Todd James: (27:33)
Every month. And so I think that we haven't talked much about the monetization components of data and analytic products, but that is another huge opportunity for people to unlock new markets that they aren't currently looking at. And I think that'll take, I mean, we saw a progression where you would go from, you know, we use the, you create a washing machine to now you have a service offering model around a washing machine that doesn't make a lot of money. At some point, you're gonna have a platform of data that's thrown off from a particular industry like washing machine that you're able to monetize on top of that too. And we're seeing that across industries heavily in retail. I mean, you look at 84.51 and what they do, uh, uh, from a data monetization, uh, point of view within the grocery retail industry, we're gonna see more and more of that across different industries as existing services. Existing offerings increasingly become commoditized through competition. And people are gonna be looking for, for new ways in which to grab yield.

Tim Cholvat: (28:32)
And certainly service industries can pivot a lot faster, um, because of, uh, of ways of work, right? Um, you're not dealing with a whole lot. You can literally write a memo, change the way of work, install, uh, something, get your data organized and be fairly quick in your pivot in, uh, in organization.

Todd James: (28:50)
But even your industrial example, um, while it is tougher to back out of capital decisions, the ability to optimize on top of that. And what I was also seeing is when you go in, and I think if, when you go into a manufacturing, when you go into a supply chain environment, there's an opportunity to optimize from a science perspective. But I'm also finding it's a tool for changing some of the processes. What are the legacy rules that have been in place, and how can we begin to revisit them? So I think it's very important too, that, you know, as part of being business-led, you don't just stop with the technology solution. You, you use. The fact that you're bringing in AI as an opportunity to even rethink some of the existing rules, the existing ways of working and drive change there, I think is gonna be very important for business. So AI as an enabler, but it's also a driver of change if you use it in the right way. 'cause it's disruptive enough, it gives you that cover, that opportunity to make broader changes.

Tim Cholvat: (29:46)
There's an area we haven't touched on, and that's, uh, ethics and bias.

Todd James: (29:49)
Yep.

Tim Cholvat: (29:49)
And, uh, the ethical and responsibility, uh, of AI in business. Uh, and, uh, with AI playing a larger role in these decision makings. We've touched on throughout the discussion here. Uh, how should businesses approach, uh, ethical AI practices including, uh, bias mitigation and transparency?

Todd James: (30:11)
Yeah. I, there's, there's several classes I think that we, we see out there. We see organizations that aren't being responsible enough. We see organizations that are implementing good frameworks, and we see organizations that I think are taking ideological bent. Um, what I would say is, when you look out there, I think it's very important that as you implement these solutions, we, we, we keep in mind that we want to create a world that we all wanna live in. Um, that we want our AI to reflect our individual and collective desires for this world and our individual and collective principles around which we wanna live. Um, as you look out there, I think the standards for safe, transparent, responsible, unbiased ai, we're all using the same frameworks. I mean, it comes down to are we trying to create an environment where we treat people consistently, fairly, safely, decently?

Todd James: (31:10)
You put the person at the center of that I think is very important. Where I do see missteps, um, is when ideology comes into play, and you can say, where's he going with this? Pick your ideology. I don't care if it's left, right, center, up, down. Once you start putting an ideological bent, you end up with cases of feeling good while doing evil. And we've seen some examples of that where, and it wasn't necessarily ai, it was rules based sitting on top of AI, that created situations where certain demographic groups were associated with atrocities, they've never been part of. Family units were represented in ways that, um, biased against certain, certain lifestyles. That that was done with good intent, but the outcome was negative. And that's why I say stay away from ideology. The other example too, I think we're sitting here in Cincinnati, Ohio today.

Todd James: (32:08)
Uh, I think it is very important that we get the broadest cross section of input on what AI ethics should look like. It should not be defined outta the Silicon Valley. It should not be defined out of Seattle. It should not be defined out of Cincinnati, Ohio.

Tim Cholvat: (32:24)
Mm-hmm .

Todd James: (32:25)
It should be represented as a cross section, a give and take, a tug and pull from Texas to Boston to Wichita to San Francisco. And you can think globally. I think we need to make sure that we're being inclusive and that'll put us on the right path. So that's kind of my warning. I think a lot of companies are doing this well. There's a lot of good grounding out there, good frameworks that's being built into tools. If you're not watching out for it, you're gonna get in trouble. But I think from a philosophical point of view, we still have some risk factors that we as practitioners in this field, and quite frankly, as a society at large, need to manage.

Tim Cholvat: (33:02)
Yeah. And especially when you talk about large language models that have a lot of different influences.

Todd James: (33:07)
A hundred percent.

Tim Cholvat: (33:08)
Um, and, uh, and more companies that I talk to are, uh, really considering small language models. And, uh,

Todd James: (33:16)
There's a lot of reasons to do that, by the way.

Tim Cholvat: (33:17)
And well, it, it, it can go both ways too, right? It can go the, the way of large language models have, uh, a bit of crowdsourcing.

Todd James: (33:24)
mm-hmm .

Tim Cholvat: (33:25)
Which is, which is nice as long as you trust them. Um, but small language models have the, uh, within my, uh, boundaries, uh, and, and security firewalls, all of that. Uh, so.

Todd James: (33:39)
Yeah, and I, I, I think there's, I mean, there are cost reasons and other other reasons why you, you wanna look at it. I think to that point, one model doesn't, uh, fit everything. Um, but, but to your point though, I I, I do think taking a little bit more control there, and I, the other thing I talk about too is it's important to keep in mind context. Sometimes being too careful can get companies in trouble. A few years ago there was a Massachusetts company that doing the right thing, Hey, we don't want gender or race involved, which we all sit back and say, that's great. Treat all people equal, take factors that can't be controlled out. There is a context lever that I think is gonna be very important for us as we think about responsible AI and the use of data as well.

Tim Cholvat: (34:23)
So let's put our eyes above the horizon. Um, future of AI powered, uh, analytics. Uh, looking ahead, how do you see AI evolving in the next few years? And what emerging trends should business leaders be aware of as they, as they look at standing trying to stay ahead?

Todd James: (34:40)
Yeah, I, I, I think there's, there's a few things that, that I would say. I, I do think we are going to continue to see an increased penetration of AI capabilities built into platforms and being used by, by companies. I think companies are in two races right now, whether they realize it or not, as it comes to ai. One is kind of the vendor race, getting to the new normal, what all this AI that is gonna be a commodity capability that is consistent across industries and within industries. There is a race to get to that, to change your cost structure and to change your capability mix. But it's not differentiating. It's just to the next normal. The other area that I think, I think companies are gonna be recognizing that and moving. The other area that I see is what I call the differentiation race. And this is where companies that are going to get ahead are really gonna have to start to look, there are three things that they're gonna need to manage.

Todd James: (35:36)
One is, do you have a robust pro proprietary data asset? Two, do you have sciences or access to data sciences to employ it? That used to be the most important. I think over the next few years, it'll be the least important. The third no one talks about that I think will be the most important is are do you have the muscle and the muscle memory to be able to operationalize these changes in a way that has a meaningful impact on your business? And I think that's gonna be the mindset shift that we're gonna see across companies as they look to restructure their platforms, their operations. And when I say operations or operating models. The other big kind of out there change that, that surprise I think will be a bit of a surprise. Um, mobility, we saw the, the rapid change of large language models.

Todd James: (36:25)
We're gonna continue to see an acceleration there, and those sciences are gonna drive the most value when combined with optimization science. So I look across a process, how do I take a predictive science and combine it with some of these large language capabilities to really create a, uh, a, a solution that is simple, easy, and drives big value for a customer, for an employee. But the area that I think in, and I was up at MIT probably three years ago talking to one of the professors who's leading in the fields, and he was talking about how difficult the mobility problem is for AI versus the language problem. You know, working in different dimensions. You don't have to deal with that in language, uh, predictions. So these mobility model concepts are actually getting more traction than I think a lot of us expected. And I think we're gonna start to, like, if you look out across the next five years, I think we're gonna have an equally big moment with mobility that we had with language models. So, and that's not something I had on my card happening as quick as the timeframe I discussed.

Tim Cholvat: (37:30)
Yeah. And it's, uh, just like anything, it's, uh, if you start to, uh, look at trying to predict what's gonna happen over the next five years, you're gonna be absolutely wrong. No matter what you predict

Todd James: (37:40)
a hundred percent . Yeah. What, what, what do they say? Uh, uh, you know, the, it always takes longer over, you know, it seems to go slow over the, the three year period, but over the five to 10 year period, you're shocked by how quick it is.

Todd James: (37:53)
I think we're living in that where, I mean, the, the other thing, and you nailed it, the pace of change that continues to accelerate to levels that I don't think any of us have seen in our career. And I think probably the new normal is however fast it went last year, expected to be faster next year.

Tim Cholvat: (38:08)
Yeah. And, and it's, uh, we have you, uh, in the, uh, track around, uh, industry alignment, but there's, there's other tracks I think that are gonna play into this as too, we have a data foundations track, uh, that people we're gonna hear a couple of stories around, uh, home city Ice is coming and, uh, talking with AMEND and, uh, talking about, uh, their journey around data. Uh, we have Newton technology, uh, some, a couple of companies in there talking about where they're emerging and how they're bringing, uh, AI agents in, uh, into their technologies. Uh, and, uh, one of the other interesting ones is, uh, how you touched on AI and, and, uh, and, and analytics and that relationship and, uh, what that relationship looks going forward, especially as you look at, uh, something around AI and, uh, analytics and prediction, prediction of the next Gen A, you know, gen AI models are analytics and, uh, so I think it'll be a really interesting, uh, conference for a lot of different people. But is there anything you would suggest to, uh, the people that are coming?

Todd James: (39:21)
You know, I think the, the first thing is I think this is an incredible asset for the community. The University of Cincinnati anchoring this conference, bringing together university, bringing together business, bringing together the community, I think is very important for the technology ecosystem. My, my biggest, the two big benefits I always get out of this, is dedicate the time to set aside to really listen. You're gonna hear the business challenges that you're gonna hear the technology advancement, but you're also gonna hear the challenges and the applications of these technologies across industries. There is a lot of opportunity to see what someone else is doing to pull it into your own business. And, and I always am pleasantly surprised and I find some of my best ideas for the solutions I wanna do in my own industry, from hearing from someone that's in a totally different industry,

Tim Cholvat: (40:11)
Cross industry. Yep.

Todd James: (40:12)
You change it.

Tim Cholvat: (40:12)
Yep.

Todd James: (40:13)
The other thing, network, man, this is going to be a lot of people with a lot of different backgrounds. Talk to each other.

Tim Cholvat: (40:19)
Yep. And, uh, well, thank you very much for your time today. I wish we could go on for another hour.

Todd James: (40:23)
Hey, this has been a pleasure and I'm looking forward to the event, and it's great to be here at the University of Cincinnati today.

Grant Freking: (40:29)
My thanks to Tim Cholvat and Todd James for taking over this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. Remember, the 2025 Analytics Summit will be held Tuesday, May 6th at the Sharonville Convention Center. For more information, visit business.uc.edu/analytics-summit. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business. My name is Grant Freking, Manager of College Communications and Marketing at Lindner. In this episode, I'm joined by Sophia Schwerin and Adam Al-Nammari, two soon to be Lindner graduates. Sophia and Adam are here to reflect on their time at uc, share their biggest takeaways, favorite memories, and how Lindner has shaped their career paths. Plus, we'll get a glimpse into what's next for them as they step into a world beyond Lindner and uc. Sophia and Adam, welcome to Bearcats Mean Business.

Adam Al-Nammari: (00:34)
Thank You. Thank you.

Sophia Schwerin: (00:35)
Yeah, thank you so much.

Grant Freking: (00:37)
Let's explore your backgrounds. I, we've just met a couple minutes ago. Let's get to know you guys a little bit. Sophia, I'll start with you. How did you end up at Lindner?

Sophia Schwerin: (00:44)
Um, so I'm from Cincinnati. I live five minute drive away, so I've always knew I wanted to go to uc and um, just the business college really stuck out to me with, um, the co-op and all the opportunities here. And my brother already went here. So it was kind of just a plan to always go to Lindner and I study international business, um, management and, uh, business law.

Grant Freking: (01:09)
Okay. So you didn't take much convincing when we were sending out recruitment materials to you when you were in high school?

Sophia Schwerin: (01:13)
No, my parents met at uc. All three of my grandparents went to uc, so I I, there's nowhere else I would've gone.

Grant Freking: (01:21)
. Okay. Okay. Good to know. Adam, I think you might have taken a little more convincing you from, you're from Boston, right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (01:25)
Yeah, I'm from Boston. Uh, the town of Marlboro, Massachusetts. Uh, my dad went to college here back in like 98. He played football.

Grant Freking: (01:31)
Okay.

Adam Al-Nammari: (01:31)
And my sister left a year before me and I was just in my academic advisor's room in, uh, in high school and I was like, Hey, I'm apply to uc, let's see if I get in. At the time it was kind of like a reach for me during high school. Visited my sister in Ohio, it's two in the morning. I checked my email and I just see the confetti and I was like, well, I guess I'm gonna uc. So it was, it was a last second decision, but it was a great decision and now I'm here.

Grant Freking: (01:54)
Awesome. Awesome. So fast forward three years in your case, Adam, four years in your case, Sophia, you guys are graduating. How are we feeling?

Adam Al-Nammari: (02:04)
I'm feeling great. It's a lot of stress off my shoulders. I've been taking 18 credits since I got to Lindner and uh, a transition student from Blue Ash. So I've been taking 18 credits since there and it's unreal feeling doing it in three years. It's an accomplishment that I'm kind of proud of myself and I definitely gotta give my, uh, flowers to Gavin Mitchell for definitely helping me out there. Couldn't have done it without 'em, but I'm super excited to get this thing rolling.

Grant Freking: (02:27)
Yeah. Gavin Mitchell, one of our esteemed academic advisors are, are you, you you had an extra year,

Sophia Schwerin: (02:33)
But Yeah, I mean, it went just as fast.

Grant Freking: (02:34)
I'm sure.

Sophia Schwerin: (02:35)
I, I kind of started in 2021, so it was still kind of Covid and I think that might have sped it up, but it was, I think it was way faster than, um, high school and um,

Grant Freking: (02:48)
Yeah. And it's, it's crazy how fast it does go by.

Sophia Schwerin: (02:50)
Yeah.

Grant Freking: (02:50)
When like, you really enjoy your experience. I mean, you, your path was kind of laid off for you. You had the familial connection. Right. And you, it seems like you, you wanted to study business too, I'm sure when you came into Lindner.

Sophia Schwerin: (03:00)
Yeah, I started with the same major my whole path. I just added different two minors and a certificate, so I knew where I was going the whole time.

Grant Freking: (03:10)
and you guys got everything set up for, for your family coming in for, I mean, your family, Sophia Doesn does have to come very far, but Adam, do you got family coming in?

Adam Al-Nammari: (03:16)
Yeah, I have eight tickets. Uh, my mom, my dad, my sister's here already and my friend coming from Boston, it's gonna be fun. Uh, I got some uncles here as well, so the whole family's coming. It's gonna be nice.

Grant Freking: (03:27)
Have to negotiate with any of your fellow students or for like, extra graduation tickets or do you get what you needed?

Adam Al-Nammari: (03:31)
I got what I needed 'cause my sister has eight and I requested a plus two, so I think I'm perfect.

Grant Freking: (03:36)
Right on. Right on. Well, let's talk about, let's go through your experiences here at Lindner. Um, Sophia, I'll start with you. So what are some of the highlights that stick out to you? Could be events, could be courses you had, um, maybe influential professors and mentors. What sort of sticks out? So I know it's hard to encompass that to like four years into a couple sentences, but what, what sticks out to you?

Sophia Schwerin: (03:56)
Um, I think the connections I made in Lindner with my professors and like other colleagues going to different, um, um, degrees and pathways. Like, um, one professor, I do a lot of work with Daniel Peat. Um, I've had him for a bunch of classes and now I'm working with research with him and just learning a lot of knowledgeable things. Um, I think I was able to publish with him and I think that's something on my resume that I would not have had if I did not go to Lindner. And I think just the connections are really, really important.

Grant Freking: (04:32)
Yeah, absolutely. An undergraduate student with a research publication is definitely, definitely a really cool accomplishment. Is that something you were interested in? Um, maybe when I'm, I'm curious about the research aspect of it. Did you think about getting research published like early on in your college, even before college or that's something just happened as you got to know? Uh, professor Peat?

Sophia Schwerin: (04:50)
Um, it wasn't really in the front of my mind. My mom is a chemist.

Grant Freking: (04:54)
Okay.

Sophia Schwerin: (04:54)
So she does a lot of research and for, I think it was BA 3080, we did like, um, or it was management. We did, um, a report about like what, um, future career we wanted.

Grant Freking: (05:07)
Mm-hmm .

Sophia Schwerin: (05:08)
And I kind of wrote about like research and development on the business sector and, um, Dr. Peat reached out to me and he was like, Hey, I think I wanna do this case study. Do you wanna do it with me? And then that's how I ended up here.

Grant Freking: (05:21)
Awesome. Awesome. Adam, what sticks out to you during your time here?

Adam Al-Nammari: (05:23)
When it comes to Lindner, there's a lot of professors that are just amazing. I had Professor Nicole Sims for my career success class. You know, it's a one credit class, not too many students think about it as, you know, it's something crazy. But the connection I built, you know, the resumes, the LinkedIn that you make in that class, even for her to write me a letter of recommendation for law school or for grad school in general, it's just amazing the connections I've, I've made here all the way from Dr. Albert Klein to Dr. Rodney Swope. And even with my pace leading, uh, uh, role, I got going on right now. Now, yeah, this is my first semester doing it. But my learning community, I have a great group of students that work super hard. We did our project today, I was telling you, uh, bright and early this morning.

Grant Freking: (06:05)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:05)
But it's just a great role giving back to the community, giving what you got when you first came here and just, it's a cycle and it's, it's just amazing.

Grant Freking: (06:13)
What are a couple things you two wish you would've known as as freshman? Adam, I'll, I'll start with you. I'll put you on the spot. What are a couple things you wish you would've known? Things that would've maybe enhanced your experience as as a first year student?

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:25)
Great question. So, one thing I I think that's very misunderstood is a LinkedIn connection isn't a connection. Meaning just because you connect with someone on LinkedIn doesn't mean they're willing to do something for you.

Grant Freking: (06:38)
It's what you make of it, right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (06:39)
It's what you make of it. Maybe going to office hours with professors or maybe just meeting with them outta class or et cetera and just getting to know them. 'cause they, they are willing to run a mile for you if you're willing to do the same. So that's one thing I wish I learned and I did learn eventually. It's like, meet with these people after class, get to know them. They are here to help you and they want to see you succeed. So that's one thing I would tell, uh, freshman Adam is get to know them outside of class.

Grant Freking: (07:06)
Yep. They're here to help Sophia have that. Yeah.

Sophia Schwerin: (07:08)
Um, it's kind of building off of that, but like, there's so many different clubs and opportunities and I know like with Lindner women in business, we have different biweekly events and they have professionals talking to you and just making those connections and maybe spending like five minutes after the meeting, introducing yourself, saying hello and trying to connect with that person. Not just, oh, I went to this meeting, I learned something. That's it.

Grant Freking: (07:34)
Right. Now, both of you are very involved students. How do you, Sophia I'll go back to you. How do you balance your workload as, as you know, the academic years coming to a close, you're almost done having to do this, but how did you sort of find success at balancing your, your club involvement, your academic involvement, and anything else you had going on?

Sophia Schwerin: (07:50)
Um, I took mostly in-person classes, but I always had like a few online just so I had more time. And then I work in the Lindner undergraduate programs office and during, as a student worker, I had some extra time to do my homework and I prioritize things during those times that I was able to do more outside of like nine to eight to five.

Grant Freking: (08:15)
Sure. Adam

Adam Al-Nammari: (08:17)
One thing I realized that really worked for me, just a little background, uh, economics major with a legals, uh, studies certificate, what my legal studies class, it's a lot of group work and sometimes with economics you're working in groups as well, maybe for presenting. And it's having a good group with great communication. I really realize communication has really helped me get my stuff done with taking 18 credits, with maybe doing internships, communication and setting a schedule for yourself. 'cause there's no way I could have got this done if our group didn't communicate.

Grant Freking: (08:47)
Yeah.

Adam Al-Nammari: (08:47)
Or if anything came down and, you know, everyone just went ghost. So I would say putting time aside for your group, maybe to meet weekly, like what I'm doing in my capstone class right now. And it really works. It's a great game plan that never fails.

Grant Freking: (09:01)
Awesome. Yeah, the group work is tricky. If, if no one kind of steps up and sort of gets everyone a little bit more organized. I wanna transition to Sophia, I'll go back to you. Your experiential learning ex, um, experiences. So co-ops, internships, maybe study away or study abroad trips. What did you do during your time here at Lindner and what was most impactful to you?

Sophia Schwerin: (09:21)
Yeah, so I have done four short-term study abroads.

Grant Freking: (09:24)
Wow.

Sophia Schwerin: (09:24)
At Lindner. I'm an international business, so I wanted to take advantage of the opportunities.

Grant Freking: (09:30)
Makes sense.

Sophia Schwerin: (09:31)
So I did the Croatia, um, South Africa, United Arab Emirates, and I'm currently in the Columbia study abroad. So it was making use of those, um, new learnings. And with all those study abroads, it was kind of making connections in the country. And some of them, we work with students there, so you learn a lot about the different cultures or meeting businesses over there. So I think using that was really helpful in my development over the past four years. And then I also did a fellowship in Germany, which was a study abroad co-op, um, the Ruhr fellowship. And that really allowed me to grow by, um, working for a German firm. And I was able to go in meetings in German in the German language.

Grant Freking: (10:20)
mm-hmm .

Sophia Schwerin: (10:21)
And develop marketing stuff for that. So I think just all the different opportunities I was able to get at Lindner really helped me develop over the past four years.

Grant Freking: (10:30)
And I think betting these experiences will help, you know, when a future, uh, possible employer comes, comes at you and asks your questions about, you know, sort of crucible moments or, you know, times when you are maybe out of your comfort zone. You have this study abroad experiences to sort of draw on even in a different language to come real prepared to answer questions like that.

Sophia Schwerin: (10:48)
Mm-hmm .

Grant Freking: (10:48)
Do you feel like you'll, you'll be at the ready to answer those questions?

Sophia Schwerin: (10:52)
I think so. I, I try to go to like every continent just to get like kind of a background understanding and know. I think obviously every country's different. You kind of have a general culture setting with each one and I think I have a general knowledge to help in the future if I, if needed.

Grant Freking: (11:13)
Adam, what about your standout experiential learning experiences here at Lindner?

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:16)
I've had a couple internships. Uh, my first one was at Creche Law Office in Mason, Ohio. Um, got that through a family friend of course, and I got to know him through past experiences. And honestly it was a shadowing program and it's really like, you know, freshman year it's like, okay, this is, this is what I'm gonna be doing. And like maybe like six, seven years.

Grant Freking: (11:37)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:37)
If I go to law school, pass the bar, et cetera. But, uh, had a also internship operations management at Amazon. That was interesting. A huge company. A huge team. Like maybe 60, 70 employees, but it's

Grant Freking: (11:51)
So two completely different experiences,

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:53)
Two completely different experiences at Amazon. Not wearing a, a tie and a suit or.

Grant Freking: (11:58)
mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (11:59)
But it was, it was amazing because it's like, okay, that legal internship is like working in a small group and the Amazon internship's, like I'm working in a huge group, so it's like, okay, like this is like, I'm really getting both worlds right now. Complete opposite, but it was, it was amazing. Definitely helped me with my team dynamics.

Grant Freking: (12:15)
Yeah. And getting a sense of how different departments work and sort of sort of the office politics a little bit and how Yeah. A little bit of taste of that professional environment.

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:23)
Yeah, exactly.

Grant Freking: (12:24)
Adam, how about any advice for current and prospective Lindner students to get the most out of their experience here in this building and even outside of its walls?

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:32)
One thing I would say is you definitely gotta spread your wings. I know a lot of students, and when they're in high school, a lot of teachers, there's a stigma. It's like, oh, you're gonna be by yourself. It's like you're all by yourself. You're not gonna have anyone. It's just you. I really disagree with that.

Grant Freking: (12:46)
There's a community here.

Adam Al-Nammari: (12:47)
There's a community here. And I feel like there's, if you put yourself out there, you're gonna make those connections. One thing I wish my high school teachers told me was like, Hey, it's like if you get involved, like you're gonna be busy 24/7, it's gonna be something completely different than what we told you. Because just being a PACE leader, or even be, uh, talking to my career coach, Weston career advisor, Gavin, it's like, it's completely different than what I was told. And I would definitely tell people to spread your wings, maybe join clubs, maybe pick up an elective where it's something you wanna study. And so like, get the feel of it and see if you wanna make that major switch. Or even doing a, a pre-business administration, take different classes and pick what major you want to do. I feel like there's no rush. I feel like everyone thinks there's, there's a rush on them.

Grant Freking: (13:34)
Mm-hmm .

Adam Al-Nammari: (13:35)
Hey, you have to graduate, you gotta go get a job. I feel like if you just slow down, you know, graduate in four years, but do different classes. Test what you really like. That's one thing I would tell people.

Grant Freking: (13:46)
All right. So spread your wings and maybe consider graduating in four years instead of three years. Right?

Adam Al-Nammari: (13:51)
. Yeah. You can say that.

Grant Freking: (13:52)
Sophia, what about you?

Sophia Schwerin: (13:54)
Um, I would kind of say the same thing with like reaching out. I know a lot of people are scared about going to their academic advisor or, um, career coach, but they, they're your resources and they're there for a reason and it's,

Grant Freking: (14:08)
It's literally their job. .

Sophia Schwerin: (14:09)
Yeah, it's their job and you need to reach out. And one thing I kind of did towards the end of my career at Lindner is in certain classes I started sitting in different spots. So I would.

Grant Freking: (14:21)
Oh, interesting.

Sophia Schwerin: (14:21)
Like, talk to new students. And I thought that was maybe like a good idea. Maybe the start in the beginning of your college career. 'cause you don't know anyone when you start, you're starting from new you maybe no one from your high school's there.

Grant Freking: (14:35)
Right.

Sophia Schwerin: (14:35)
And if you are sitting in different spots, you talk with different people, you're getting the new connections. And I think with Lindner it's all about connections, building your connections. And that's one way

Grant Freking: (14:46)
It's great advice. And my thanks to Sophia Schwerin and Adam Al-Nammari for joining me today on Bearcats Mean Business. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider subscribing or leaving a five star review for Bearcats Mean business on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Go Bearcats.