Bearcats Mean Business podcast

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome to Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world come together. Tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode.

Marianne Lewis: (00:31)
Brendon, it's such a pleasure to have you here with us today. Thank you.

Brendon Cull: (00:35)
Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here.

Marianne Lewis: (00:37)
I, I, I find your career journey really quite remarkable. I mean, you've worked in government, corporate affairs, political campaigns, and now regional leadership. I, I wanna start by having you look back if you would. Which experiences most shaped how you perceive leadership today?

Brendon Cull: (00:57)
Um, you know, I have e- e- enjoyed, like you said, a very - mm-hmm. Diverse career with different experiences, uh, in business, uh, corporate world, um, in a, in a world like mine now at the chamber where I'm, I intersect with business and government and civic leadership at times. I worked in politics, like you said, I worked in the mayor's office, uh, for Charlie Luken when he was the mayor for five years. Um, and I think that if there was a, if there was one experience that, that really did shape influence in leadership, it was that the, the time that I worked, uh, for the mayor in, in 2001, and most people know Cincinnati's history is that 25 years ago, uh, this year, uh, is the, the anniversary in April of 2001, uh, a young man, uh, named Timothy Thomas, uh, was killed in an incident with the Cincinnati police officer in, in downtown Cincinnati.

Brendon Cull: (01:49)
Um, and that led to several days of rioting and unrest in downtown Cincinnati. And I was in the mayor's office at the time. Mm. Uh, and it was a small, small team, uh, in the, uh, le- leading city hall. Uh, and I got to see up close, uh, I think a, a great leader, uh, in my, my former boss, Charlie Luken, uh, really helped steer the city through that crisis. Um, but in addition to seeing him, I got to see some of our best business leaders in this community step forward and look for ways to help this community thrive and recover and put ourselves on a path to where I think we are now, which is a much better and a much more connected city. And we can talk about all of the things that happen in the, in the, in the 25 years since then.

Brendon Cull: (02:35)
But, you know, in that one particular week, you saw elective leadership, you saw business and CEO leadership and in some ways you saw activist leadership. You saw, um, people who were, uh, f - you know, frustrated by the current conditions looking for ways to shape change. Yeah. And it, it was, it, it all ha - it, it all, you know, obviously it wasn't everything that just happened in the course of that week. It was, uh, years of things that had built up to that moment and then years of work after that moment. Mm-hmm. Um, but to see individuals and how they chose to think about their city, how they chose to make change, how they chose to use influence in their voice - mm-hmm. Uh, in service of a bigger cause, um, it's hard to not, you know, go through life and think about the lessons from that, that particular week.

Marianne Lewis: (03:22)
I mean, that's a, that's a powerful learning experience you had there,

Brendon Cull: (03:27)
Brendon. I mean, I was, I was 20-something. I mean, the first time I answered the phone from, you know, I, I, I went on to have a career where I, I dealt a lot with the media over, over my life, but the first time I talked to a reporter, you know, was picking up the phone and having someone say, "This is so - and-so from CNN, and we're calling to come into town to talk about what's going on in Cincinnati, Ohio." Um, and so it was in some ways, uh, baptism by fire. Mm-hmm. I mean, you learn a lot in a, in a crisis moment like that. Um, but I also worked for someone who, you know, really prioritized building, I think, trusting relationships - mm-hmm. With the people in the community. Um, you know, Charlie Marleuca at the time had decades of relationships that he called upon in the business community and the civic community and the nonprofit community, um, in neighborhoods.

Brendon Cull: (04:15)
Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, I, that will never, I'll never forget that because I really see that as, um, the kind of model of leadership is that those relationships that you have have to go across, uh, this entire community, particularly if you're gonna try to make change in a community, if you're try- trying to be someone who is, you know, a person of influence and a person of leadership in a community. Uh,

Marianne Lewis: (04:35)
Uh, something you just said about just if you want to make change. I mean, th- this has changed around wicked problems in many cases. Absolutely. And I love personally just l- listening to the power of that example. And yes, you were sitting in the mayor's office and, and to some that might seem like a real seat of power and influence. And I'm not saying it isn't, but it's the weaving together of organizations and individuals that is a, to me, I, I hear you saying a really powerful takeaway.

Brendon Cull: (05:07)
It was. I mean, I remember and, you know, there was, there was, there were multiple times where the, the mayor and, and, you know, uh, I was with him for a lot of the, that week, but I, I don't want to overstate my influence, but I was certainly there for all, for all of that that was going on, you know. There was one room where, you know, you had folks from the Urban League who were thinking about what was going on in the community and then he would, you know, leave out of that room and there was a handful of people working on a different subject from the business community. You had the, you know, police department, so you were managing the actual fact that there was, there was still a crisis in a, in a community. Um, to be able to hold a bunch of, um, a bunch of urgent issues in your mind at the same time and act on them in a coordinated fashion is, that's a real, um, that is a real leadership trait.

Brendon Cull: (05:53)
Absolutely. And I think it's under, underappreciated. You know, we, we like to say, "Oh, CEOs are going to tackle this one, one big problem." Most CEOs never have the luxury of saying, "I'm going to focus on just one big problem."

Marianne Lewis: (06:03)
They're all interwoven.

Brendon Cull: (06:04)
Yes. They're thinking about what, what's interwoven. Mm-hmm. And they're thinking about, you know, what is going on inside their organization. And in this particular case, it's what's happening outside the organization. Mm-hmm. What's happening that is outside the organization that's affecting what's inside. Um, and so, you know, I, I, I have certainly been shaped by, by the time in that office. Mm-hmm. Again, not just with the mayor, but I think about some of the business leaders. M- Michael Fisher - Yes. Uh, John Williams, who was both, who were predecessors of mine as now CEO of the chamber were both, you know, frequent, frequently engaged. Janet Reed, Dr. Janet Reed who I had, had known for a long time already, um, when I was there, uh, who was deeply involved. Father, Father Graham, uh, president of, of Xavier University - Zavier. Mm-hmm. If we're allowed to mention Xavier - Of course we are.

Brendon Cull: (06:53)
On this wonderful b - uh, Bearcats podcast. Uh, and, um, uh, Charlotte Otto from Procter & Gamble - Yeah. And, uh, Jim Zimmerman from Macy's and Joe Pickler from Kroger. And these were, I'm sure I'm forgetting some folks, but they are legends in our business community. Yeah, they are. Truly. Um, who rolled up their sleeves and said, um, our job as business leaders is also to think about this community that we are in.

Marianne Lewis: (07:17)
I, I think you know, Brendon, that I, I study tensions and I see them everywhere. And one of the, the principles I've come to, to find is that the more stakeholders you are accountable to, the more tensions you experience and the more interwoven that they are. Yeah. And I think what you're describing is a, a really re - powerful re - connection across a lot of stakeholders. And with leaders who understand their role is to navigate and lead, but not necessarily to just solve. It's just, it's so much bigger than that.

Brendon Cull: (07:51)
Totally. It's so much bigger than that. It's, it's thinking about, uh, the connectedness of, of, you know, issues in a community. You know, we went through this process right after that. Um, again, this was 25 years ago this year. We're, we're recording this in June of 2026. This was, uh, you know, it all happened in 2001. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the, there was an organization that was created called Cincinnati CAN, uh, Community Action Now, and that included business and civic leaders from all over the community to think about, uh, uh, issues related to police community relations, issues related to economic development, issues related to, you know, the Minority Business Accelerator, which is now the Cincinnati Business Accelerator - Yes. Part of the Cincinnati Chamber, um, was created out of that effort. Uh, a lot of the police reforms, um, though there was a collaborative agreement in a Department of Justice investigation, um, they were centered around that table.

Brendon Cull: (08:40)
And so you had a hundred civic leaders, business and civic leaders coming together and they not only offered and suggested solutions and ways of working, they also connected with each other and built a level of trust in the community. And so, um, in some ways I see those relationships still today. Um, and that, that is a, um, I think, you know, out of that tragedy, there is an advantage in this community is that it did bring together some, um, disparately connected individuals in service of a larger, uh, uh, a, a larger, uh, more, um, uh, hopeful vision of our, our city.

Marianne Lewis: (09:18)
L- let's, let's go a little further into, into your career, your journey, um, right? That was 2001. Mm-hmm. Um, you then, you then had some different roles after that. And I'm curious, because now you are sitting in the chamber as its CEO. It's a tremendous organization. But you, you had choices between 2001 and now of where you felt like you should be seated for meta - you know, metaphorically speaking to have the greatest impact. Can you share a little bit about how you made the move to finally decide, you know what? I wanna be at the city regional level level and not necessarily, for example, at a, an organizational level, which you certainly have done as well.

Brendon Cull: (10:06)
Um, yeah. I, I, you know, I wish there was a, um, my career path is non-traditional. It's not like I've gotten on one and stayed in one particular lane. Um, that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody. You know, I, I appreciate the, the different adventures. Um, and in fact, when Jill Meyer, who's my most recent predecessor at the chamber called me and, and invited me to come join her team, um, her text message to me, which I saved and, and referenced with her quite a bit was, um, "I'm looking for someone who appreciates a good life-changing adventure when it comes along." And really that was my, my, uh, leap off the diving board into the coming over to the chamber is that I knew it would be a little bit of a life changing adventure from going to, going from corporate America, um, there.

Brendon Cull: (10:48)
But what I think was, um, I think what define, what's, uh, a defining, um, mission for me - mm-hmm. Um, and I, that sounds really heady, but I, I don't, most people don't sit down and think about what their mission is, but, um, what I have seen and experienced in this community time and time again, uh, is that when business and civic leaders, uh, and that includes academic and nonprofit and grassroots leaders when, and when, when they come together in service of something bigger, um, they can solve a big difficult issue in a community. Yeah. And every time I've seen that, I have been inspired by it, but also interested in making sure that we pass that legacy onto future generations so that people who in, in an era where you've, where because of our phones and because of so many other things, we feel disconnected from other people, that you know that these networks and connect- connections still work.

Brendon Cull: (11:45)
And so, um, I, you know, I, I don't know if there's a defining moment, but what, what I get up for in the morning is making sure that we can teach in some way, uh, or help leaders who are in positions of authority and influence today understand the power that they have to make this a better place. And so, um, you know, I participated in Leadership Cincinnati, uh, you know, 15

Marianne Lewis: (12:16)
Years

Brendon Cull: (12:16)
Ago. So did I. I love it. It was wonderful. Wonderful. And I really put conversations in there. I, I wanted people to understand that if you make yourself a little bit vulnerable - mm-hmm. To coming out of your business or to coming out of City Hall and connecting with other folks as part of that tension, because you're, you, like you said, you're - It is. There's tensions there. Mm-hmm. You, I can just do my thing, but if I open myself up to other conversations and other individuals, um, that - Not very

Marianne Lewis: (12:42)
Comfortable always.

Brendon Cull: (12:43)
It's not comfortable always. Uh, and there's, and particularly in this moment in time in our community, there's risk. And, um, so if there's a mission of mine, it is to make sure that we are helping leaders in this community get comfortable with that tension, get comfortable with that risk - mm-hmm. And say, "Yes, I do have a role to play in the future of this

Marianne Lewis: (13:04)
Community." I, uh, there are a couple of lessons I, I, I, I hope that these podcasts, because I get to have wonderful people. Michael Fisher was on recently. One is that nobody's path is straight. I mean, not even by a long shot. I think yours is fascinating because you are jumping sectors, not just organizations. Yeah. Which I haven't, I don't see as much and I love. Um, but the second is that it, it takes the whole person. I mean, I, I love the way you think about this. We, we, maybe this sounds a, a bit tangential, but I, I worry sometimes for the younger generations that they can feel quite negative about the rate of change and the ability to change in a polarized and, and especially with social media, a very negative world. Yeah. But we have the, we have the blessing of time.

Marianne Lewis: (13:57)
We know things change. We know people make an impact all the time. Yeah. And I, I want to make sure we continue to instill that, not just hope, but motivation to be the change because it, it takes people.

Brendon Cull: (14:12)
Yeah, it absolutely does. And it takes, you know, I mean, the Gen Z, we've, we've done some work at the chamber. My colleague, Audrey Treasure, who leads our Workforce Innovation Center has done some work on, on Gen Z and we did some focus groups and it, it's really fascinating. And anytime I get the chance to spend time with college students today or university students, recent graduates who talk about kind of what their experience has been like, I'm, I'm fascinated by - mm-hmm. And I'm looking for those nuggets of what are you interested in? Yeah. What do you want your world to be like? It's often different from the world that we're in today, but they're not, um, there's no shortage of opinions on it. Um, if, if anything, it's a, um, h- help me figure out how to get into this swim lane, help me figure out how to get into a, a, a place where I can, um, it's not just about it making change either.

Brendon Cull: (15:03)
You know, some changes are, you can make change in some. I'll tell you a funny story.

Marianne Lewis: (15:08)
Oh, good.

Brendon Cull: (15:09)
We're, we've gotten really heavy really quickly. I'll

Marianne Lewis: (15:11)
Tell you a funny story. That's right. Let's, uh,

Brendon Cull: (15:13)
Let's do a funny story. I graduated from Xavier. And when I was a student senator, I, I, I started out in the kind of peace and justice world. Okay. And then I decided to run for student senate mostly because I was frustrated by, I didn't feel like the peace and justice programs were getting their fair share. So I said, "Well, I'll go beyond student senate and I'll make sure that they, you know, are attended to. " Well, then I got really into student senate as people who touch politics are, uh, it tends to happen. My big project when I was at Xavier as a student senator in senior year was changing, getting the university to change the toilet paper in the dorms from one ply to two ply. This was big, big news. It was on the front page of the Cincinnati Enquirer - Okay. In 1999.

Brendon Cull: (15:55)
So my first big headline was - Went all in. Was some pretty small change stuff. Uh, and so I like to think that we've probably tried to go onto some more consequential, uh, efforts. It has

Marianne Lewis: (16:04)
To start somewhere, Brendon.

Brendon Cull: (16:05)
But it has to start somewhere. It does. Uh, and so, um, I don't, I, you know, there are some things that are, that are, uh, small changes to make, but some of it is you can change culture in your world or in your neighborhood by just how you show up. And if you are the kind of leader, you might be a mid-level manager on an accounting team and you are doing an awesome job in your work and you are contributing to the company and making it a better organization and contributing to the bottom line. And if you go one step further, if you help bring the outside in, if you help think about what's going on in the world around you, you are gona go from a really great leader to the, the highest level excellent of leader because you're seeing what's happening outside the walls.

Brendon Cull: (16:49)
And so part of this, it's, it's not just about saying, "I'm gonna take up a cause." Mm-hmm. It's about understanding the world in which you're in, the history, the trends, uh, the needs, and then thinking about how your organizations and the people around you can contribute to what that future looks like.

Marianne Lewis: (17:07)
Well, I think, I think that's a, that's a great segue to talk a little bit more about leadership. I mean, you've already shared some names of individuals that truly are legends of Cincinnati. Um, I'd, I'd love to hear your view on what leadership qualities have really stood out to you of, from those who are able to not just move their organizations, but the city forward. What do you look for?

Brendon Cull: (17:32)
What do you see? It's, uh, you know, I've, I, I mentioned the names and not to name drop, but, uh, because it is, uh, I'm so fortunate to have had that, had exposure to these kinds of individuals. Yeah. And not to cross sector into Grant is our producer here, but his uncle's podcast I was on. I, I, you know, so I'll use a Reds reference here. Um, this is, this is like, I, I feel like in some ways I got to be the ball boy on the, you know, a World Series Reds team. I got to be around the best players at the time and see how they interacted with each other and what they were doing. I didn't do much when I was 23 years old. Um, but I certainly did learn a ton from all of these individuals. And, and, um, you know, what I saw is, um, advantages and, uh, influence and ability goes to people who show up, one.

Brendon Cull: (18:25)
Uh, you, you have no idea the advantage you get by just choosing to be in rooms and by saying, "I will go to that. " Um, and I know that in this time of, there's so much going on, we say, "Well, I gotta pri- prioritize my schedule and prioritize my own time." If there's something that you care about, um, showing up to that one extra meeting, showing up to that one extra conversation or coffee is really important. Um, doing the work, which these are simple things, but the person who writes the first memo, the first email, the first salvo in a conversation to say, "I'm gonna advance this discussion forward," um, they can have enormous influence with that. If you choose to sit down and say, "I'm gona start this conversation and lay out some issues," even if it's not ends up where you go.

Brendon Cull: (19:09)
Um, I had, I had a later opportunity when we were working on transportation issues to, when I got to the chamber, one of the first things that Jill and I worked together on is to say, "What does the transportation strategy need to be in terms of how the business community engaged?" And I had blank sheet of paper and got to write a little bit about how we should engage, what we should focus on and what issues we would need to cover. I hired my colleague, Pete Metz, who came on and has been, you know, uh, one of the, one of the best partners I've ever had in terms of doing civic work in this community over the last decade. And, um, we were able to execute on much of what was in that document. I go back and look at it sometimes and say, "This wasn't all right, but it certainly did set the tone for the work that we're gonna do.

Brendon Cull: (19:48)
" mm-hmm. So I tell people, you know, from a leadership perspective, s- start to do the work. And then there's no, there's no, um, there's no substitute for finding time to, uh, listen, um, you know, to, to what's going on. And the listening and learning aspect of, of a community and it goes hand in hand with trying to understand what's going on in, in this region. Um, we are not so unique as to s - we like to think we are sometimes, but we're not so unique as to think that we can't apply lessons from other communities here. We can. Mm-hmm. However, if you show up and you've got a whole bunch of lessons from a bunch of other communities, I'm excited to see you. I also want you to say, "I'm anxious to understand this community too." Right. And that means understanding the issue, the, the issues.

Brendon Cull: (20:39)
My colleague, we were talking about Leadership Cincinnati. My colleague Sean Comer, who just does a phenomenal job - He does. Leading Leadership Cincinnati. You know, one of the things that he talked about even in his interview and what I know about Sean is that he cares about the history block by block in this community. And so if you're thinking about art in Cincinnati, are you going back 25 years to look at what this city's relationship with art has been? If you're thinking about poverty in Cincinnati, are you thinking about what are the trends that have developed over 200 years - mm-hmm. That have led to some of the conditions that we have here today? And so I want people who are interested in what's happening here and I think those, you know, together those are, uh, leadership traits that I think help, um, particularly people who, who aspire to be civic leaders - mm-hmm.

Brendon Cull: (21:24)
Um, show up and do well.

Marianne Lewis: (21:26)
Uh, you know, I, I, I love that point, Brendon, because I, I think people who aren't from Cincinnati might think of us as monolithic or, or I don't know, unified in some way, but there are so many different stories and elements from the neighborhoods and let alone the history. I, one of the things that I, I think often of, of, in leadership for myself as a leader, but also in my work is just the power of vision and building alignment. You know, this is kind of a Patrick Lancione and beyond, but I think it's absolutely crucial. And then I hear examples like you're given and think building vision that can weave together that variety of stakeholders and neighborhoods and, and history is a different level of challenge. I wonder how you think about building vision and, and fostering alignment at that level. Yeah. Getting us all rowing in the same direction.

Brendon Cull: (22:25)
Um, I mean, I, I wish I had... I, I don't have all the answers. There have been plenty of times where I have failed in an effort to try and get a whole bunch of people. Yes, that's how, that's how we learn. And cities are messy and complicated. It's what makes them exciting. If you've done any reading about cities and regions, um, you know that they're, like, careers are not, not straight lines. Um, the thing, the thing that occurred to me as I was kind of thinking about this conversation is you have to invest other people in the vision. You have to convince them that that vision is something that they can hold on - Yeah. To as well. Um, if you think about it from a business term, business perspective, been a lot of IPO news in the, or a lot of IPO topics in the news lately.

Brendon Cull: (23:13)
Um, in, in some ways you're, if you're trying to get people, um, e- excited about your community vision or something that you're trying to do here, you're almost doing a little bit of an IPO, which means you have to give people stock in your vision. And that means you lose some control of it. Because at some point somebody could buy a whole bunch of it and say, "Oh, well, this is, I have a little different vision of it, " but they are owners. They feel ownership of the bigger cause in general. And so if you are leading something, at some point, you have to be willing to sell shares. You have to be willing to say - That's a great question. I am bringing you into this in a way in which you actually have ownership of this. This is no longer just mine. Might have started with my idea.

Brendon Cull: (23:53)
It might have been my invention. It might have been my thing. And it rarely is just one person's, but in, in this particular example, you starting something, um, if you're going to bring people a complicated community situation, this goes for business too, this goes for teams that you're working within an organization, is that you have to bring people into that, that vision and let them feel like they have ownership of it.

Marianne Lewis: (24:14)
Uh, I, I, I'm going to remember the IPO metaphor. It's a really good one because ownership matters. I mean, it's, it's motivation on a whole different level. Yeah. Right? Because it's personal.

Brendon Cull: (24:23)
Yeah. I mean, you could do... I, I had this, uh, opportunity a few, uh, last year to go down and hear a story about, um, it was a, a, a case study re- review of, um, Gibson guitars, and they had gone into an ESOP. And an ESOP is another similar model - Of course. That you could do. You're giving people ownership and making them feel connected into what you're trying to do. If civic leaders find ways to do that, I think they could be really, really successful. Uh,

Marianne Lewis: (24:49)
Let's look a bit to the future, Brendon. Um, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna give you a, a different kind of focus on this one. You know that I'm very proud of the co-op model here at UC. I believe it's the engine of how we learn through cooperative education. And it's really about blending students and faculty and staff and partners. But if I think about the power of connection and partners, what, if we, let's look ahead and think about how can businesses, universities and organizations really work to support this region? And you and I have talked a lot about the power of and vitality of attracting and retaining talent in particular. In your, in your wishes, in your dreams, how would we work together to go to the next level on

Brendon Cull: (25:35)
That? Well, I, I just wanna say fir- first of all, I mean, I love being on this campus. Um, this is, this is the center of what the future of Cincinnati looks like. Oh, I love that. When I was here last week with, uh, Dr. Pinto and we went to the top of the Crosley Tower as they are taking it down with Michelle O'Rourke. Yes,

Marianne Lewis: (25:52)
With Michelle

Brendon Cull: (25:53)
. Uh, and Skanska. She offered that. It was such a cool - Was it scary?

Marianne Lewis: (25:56)
All right I'm gonna

Brendon Cull: (25:57)
Have to do that too. The ORC, uh, ORC team's very safe so it felt

Marianne Lewis: (26:00)
Very,

Brendon Cull: (26:00)
Uh - Okay, excellent. Prioritized safety. But you could see - But it was so cool, um, to see what they were doing - Yes. Because you had all of these folks on the roof of this building, which is legend on Cincinnati's campus. Mm-hmm. I live a mile from here and I'm gonna miss it on the skyline. Mm-hmm. But, uh, progress. And they are taking it down piece by piece. And you know who was up on that roof were people who care about UC, lieutenant governor was there, uh, who thinks about education as a priority so that Ohioans can reach their, uh, full potential. And you had UC co-ops who were either co-oping at that moment or they were, uh, four or five years into their career and they started working at O'Rourke or Skanska as a UC co-op. Oh, that's great. And, and the building that they are replacing there is a STEM building, fourth STEM building on UC's campus, which is going to help chart the course of the future of talent in this particular community right here on MLK, right in the middle of the city.

Brendon Cull: (26:56)
Uh, stones throw from all of our hospitals, uh, I - 75 and the aerospace corridor all the way up to Dayton. This right here where we're sitting, uh, the, the College of Business here is a, is a, really a, a, um, uh, a beacon point for the future of this particular region. And when I pulled up today to park in the parking garage, there's a giant banner over the door, over the street that says welcome. And it's because you are hosting high schoolers from, like you said, on the way in here, all over who are coming here to think about what banner looks like. And if you look at cities that have, uh, you know, seen their growth move exponentially, it is because they have welcomed newcomers of all kinds, and then given them the opportunity to shape the future of the place in which they want to live.

Brendon Cull: (27:41)
And so it, it's both, it has to work both ways, is there? It has to. All of these folks who are coming here, I don't want you to come here and just get your degree and then move on and get a job and say, "This is the city that we have created for you. Live in it. I want you to come here - mm-hmm. Get your degree, get a job here." Yeah. And then be a part of the forces that help shape the city of the future. Absolutely. If you look at cities like Denver and Nashville and, uh, we're going to Charlotte this year for our leadership exchange, those are cities that have imported, um, hundreds of thousands of people, new talent into their community. And what they have said is once you get here, this is yours and you get to do with it what you want.

Brendon Cull: (28:16)
And I want those people to come here and shape this. They, they should feel ownership of it. Absolutely. They should feel connected to it. They should feel safe.This is the city that I want to live in in the future.

Marianne Lewis: (28:24)
Oh, that's a great example because I would love to help our students, whether they grew up in Cincinnati or co - or, or coming from afar, build that ownership in the city.

Brendon Cull: (28:34)
The co-op program program is, is so perfect because you're getting - That's a great way to do it. The students off campus. Yeah. Right out of the, right out of the chute. You know, you go to some universities and it's like, okay, you're gonna be in these four walls for the whole time that you're here. And I think the, the model now, and I benefited from this where I went, is that, you know, they, they push you to explore what's going on in the community outside of, of, of the campus. That's really important.

Marianne Lewis: (28:58)
It, it is important. And, and one of the ways I, I'd love to conclude our podcast is with some advice for this future generation. I think a particular question I'd love to ask you is if someone wanted to help shape the future of their city, Cincinnati in particular, but it could be beyond, but didn't know where to begin, what advice would you give?

Brendon Cull: (29:20)
Uh, well, selfishly, I mean, we haven't spent a lot of time talking about the chamber. Let's do. Uh, and I would, I would just say, um, there are so many ways to connect to our organization. Mm-hmm. Um, I tell people, I usually start by saying we're a nearly 200-year-old organization, and that's one, because I enjoy history. Um, but also I think it's that connectedness to who we are and our culture in our community is really important. So I tell people to knock on our door and that could mean you wanna sign up for our weekly newsletter so that you know what's going on in this community, you wanna come to the free networking events, you want to, uh, if you are a summer intern in Cincinnati and you sign up for the SINC program, we will help orient you to this community, uh, as a whole.

Brendon Cull: (30:00)
There are leadership programs for more seasoned executives as you move through your career. There's opportunities to be involved from a government affairs perspective. And then there's all the other cool stuff that we do, like Blink and Octoberfest and so much else that brings that community to, to our region. But I do think of our, I do want our organization to be positioned as a, we're a great first call for, for people. Um, in our days of going to college probably, if you remember, there was an information line usually on campus. Mm-hmm. Do you, do you remember this? Yes I do. You would like, you would call whatever the number was, I still remember mine and, and you could call whoever you wanted or whoever would answer the phone and you could ask them anything. Like what's the time you, you know, what time is it?

Brendon Cull: (30:43)
Wh time's the shuttle gonna pick me up? What time is this? 'Cause you didn't, we didn't have it all on our phones. I know I'm gonna sound really old. I'm not that old. But you didn't have, we didn't have it all on our phones. Yeah. It wasn't just Google this for me, please. It was, it was a number you called to, to Google this for me. In some ways our, our chamber can do that. Mm-hmm. Is that we can, you can call us and we can help orient you into this community. I wanna be a part of something outside of my company too. I wanna be engaged. I wanna benefit my company - Right. By being en- engaged in the community like we talked about earlier. We're a, a great first call. But in terms of advice after you get past knocking on our door, um, you know, I, I would say, um, you never, you should never stop learning.

Brendon Cull: (31:23)
Mm-hmm. You should never stop reading. Um, and I'm not talking about reading, uh, just texts and, and - mm-hmm. S- scrolling, but, you know, pick up a book. Uh - Go deep. Go deeper. Try to understand the history of the company that you're working for. Yeah. Uh, the history of the community that you're working for. Um, go talk to people. Um, you know, when I worked at Kroger, I spent 10 years working at Kroger, uh, leading government affairs and some of the most, uh, important conversations I had were, were with executives who were nearing retirement, um, who told me about their careers, but also what had happened in the company over the last several decades. Um, those moments, they're, it's not quite mentorship, although you're getting mentorship out of it. Yeah. But it's helping you understand just the ways of things because companies that are... Once you hit a certain, uh, longevity as a company, your company in some ways has, uh, there's some writing about this that I, that I'll, I'll send to you and you can cite in the notes.

Brendon Cull: (32:27)
But about companies that essentially have their own souls after a period of time. And I kind of buy into that is that you, if you are, if you've been around that long, it's, you can call it culture, but it's really there's some ways there. Mm-hmm. So my advice to young leaders is find those people who can tell you stories about the company, the city, um, the neighborhood, the community, organization that you care about and soak that up. Mm-hmm. Uh, soak that up so that you understand the moments that you're in. Don't be, um, uh, don't be limited by it. Right. But learn from it and then use your knowledge of how things work to be able to shape that future that you want.

Marianne Lewis: (33:07)
Thank you, Brendon. Uh, really just maybe a broader thank you. I, I treasure your friendship, your wisdom and expertise and today very much your inspiration in all you do at the chamber. I don't know if you have ever heard the phrase that it, some of the studies on the paradox of choice and that there are many, many ways to find purpose and get involved that they can be paralyzing. But in this great city, we have the chamber and it is a tremendous resource to all of us. So thank you for your leadership.

Brendon Cull: (33:36)
Thank you, Marianne. So glad to be here. Thanks, Grant. It's great, great space you have here. Um, get engaged with what's going on here at this campus. This is the, this is the future here.

Marianne Lewis: (33:44)
It is. Thank you.

Grant Freking: (33:46)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenged your thinking, or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome the Bearcats Mean Business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's Carl H. Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world. Come together, tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode.

Grant Freking: (00:30)
Alright, Hamsa, thank you for being here on Bearcats Mean Business journeying down from Mason, Ohio. Appreciate it. Yeah,

Hamsa Tadpatri: (00:37)
I'm super excited to be here.

Grant Freking: (00:38)
Awesome. So let's start with some basic background stuff. Um, where are you from? What brought you to Lindner? Everyone's got a story, everyone's got an origin story, so what was the, the process that kind of brought you to Lindner and where do you hail from?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (00:51)
Yeah, so, um, I've been living in Mason, uh, for about, I would say seven, eight years now. And I knew that I wanted to stay definitely kind of close to home. So I think a lot of people that come to uc know that that's gonna look like, you know, right here or Miami or OSU, kind of like, you know, staying close to home, I guess. And I ended up, you know, doing a little tour here, uh, and I got to see, you know, the business school and then also actually do, um, like the college closeup. Uh, didn't know it was called that, but yeah, got to experience that firsthand and honestly just fell in love right away. And later on, I, I remember end of senior year I got an invitation to come to Empowerment Day, which is an event that the LE Women in Business, um, host. And just going there as well, I was just like, honestly, I just knew that this was the place for me. Uh, like I think that's something that a lot of people that come here kind of go through. They see the building all the opportunities that LE has to offer, and I just knew that I wanted to, you know, come here and experience college life. So, yeah.

Grant Freking: (01:54)
Yeah. Was, um, when you were looking for a college, or even like, I guess like a business school environment, how far high on the list was like feeling welcomed or feeling at home related to like, academics and everything like that? Did you want to feel like you kind of had like a second home when you were kind of moving on to the next experience? Oh,

Hamsa Tadpatri: (02:11)
100%. Um, I think that's something that was very like, top of the list for me. Uh, I think once I came, did, you know, a lot of these visits at different universities, I think the first thing that I looked for was, did I feel welcomed? Um, and then once, you know, like you experienced that firsthand and I felt like I did here at uc, um, I just knew that, you know, I wanted to come here, so

Grant Freking: (02:33)
Yeah. Yeah, the vibe's gotta be right.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (02:34)
Exactly. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (02:35)
. So who or, and or what has most influenced, I guess, your path to this point and where you are in your college career at this sport? Who, who, who were the things, what are the principles maybe that have guided you so far?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (02:48)
Yeah. Um, I think so far, like at uc, it's definitely been the support system that I've found here, obviously. Um, me being close to home, that's a bonus. So I mean, having family like right, like so close by. Um, honestly, yeah, that's obviously like a huge support system. But then outside of, uh, just family, I think it's the friends. And then also just like the faculty support, um, that I've been able to experience has been amazing. Um, so I think that's definitely been something that I've been able to close, you know, been able to really hone into. So, yeah.

Grant Freking: (03:20)
Sure. Yeah. So when you were looking for colleges, did you have like a, or I guess even maybe when you entered entered uc, did you have like a kind of a written out plan or a sort of a jotted out plan to like what you wanted to accomplish?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (03:33)
Yeah. Um, honestly, yes, I would say so. So I think, uh, right after I graduated, um, you know, high school and then also knew that I wanted to come to uc, of course, uh, I think I definitely made a list of, um, you know, probably like orgs that I wanted to be a part of mm-hmm . Uh, I knew that was like something that I would really be engaged in here, uh, specifically at Lindner. Um, and I think I was able to, you know, actually accomplish that as well. So, uh, I know like even just on our website, we have a ton of, you know, different like opportunities kind of just listed on there, um, to like get involved in right off the bat. Uh, and then also before classes started, we have like, kind of like a orientation situation, um, where you can kind of just come in and also experience all like the, um, you know, orgs that we have, uh, on campus, not just within Lindner. So, um, you know, just experience that, like involvement fair was honestly a great experience for me personally. And then kind of talking to people sh like, you know, people sharing their experiences in different orgs was definitely very helpful.

Grant Freking: (04:33)
Yeah. Um, my follow up to that is, okay, you had your plan and you said it was very thorough. How did it, how has that changed now that you're, what, two years in? Yes. How, how has that changed and guessing maybe in like some of the specifics, but also kind of like in the scope of what you expect for yourself?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (04:48)
Oh, for sure. Um, I mean, like I said, definitely had kind of like an idea of what I was looking for, I would say as far as, you know, orgs and involvements. Um, but I think once I got here I did see kind of like, uh, a little bit of a space where I could potentially give back in a way. So, uh, that kind of looked like, uh, me, you know, me starting my own orgs as well. Right. Um, so I think, uh, that was huge. So even just like right off the bat when I, you know, my freshman year itself, um, I saw that there were, there was room for, um, you know, me being able to give back and that looked like, you know, starting two orgs. Um, so for me personally, uh, that was, uh, FBLA and then Hindu Yuva. Um, I think both orgs, uh, even previously, even in high school I was very involved in. Um, so I knew that I wanted to bring that here at uc. Um, so I think that's how it started. And then I slowly developed into, um, you know, kind of, uh, getting involved in other things as well. So, yeah.

Grant Freking: (05:43)
Yeah. Let's, let's dig deeper into that because when we spoke, um, ahead of the podcast recording, I noted how just how much involved and passionate you were about the student orgs, which comes across here too. Yeah. What I guess is like your kind of inner purpose, um, is it a mix of personal and professional? Like what do you, are you trying, are you seeing a gap that needs to be filled for students like you? What's sort of your rationale for being so involved with multiple organizations founding a couple, being a part of other ones being in leadership positions as well? Yeah, yeah.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (06:12)
Yeah. Um, I think for me personally, uh, it comes down to me wanting to be involved. Uh, I think that's something, uh, that's really stemmed my interest in, you know, all of these, uh, you know, organizations kind of like giving back in that sense. Yeah. Uh, so I think that's how it started. Uh, and then also me seeing that, um, progress, uh, of me kind of growing as, you know, not just a student, but as a leader on campus. Uh, I think I've really seen that just these past few years. Uh, I mean, obviously starting an org, I would say it's probably one of the most challenging stuff that like I honestly had to experience just because it's finding, you know, the right group of people. Uh, and then also that support system from, you know, a faculty member as well, you know, to find that advisor.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (06:55)
Uh, and then also on top of that, it's also finding people that are interested in joining the org as well. 'cause obviously it has to resonate with you in some sense. So I think all of that in all definitely was a process. Um, but I mean, obviously we were able to, you know, get through that and then also find kind of a solid base of people that are really interested, willing to give back and also come back, uh, you know, to our meetings every other week. So I think it's been a really great experience for sure.

Grant Freking: (07:23)
Yeah, that sounds amazing. What have you found out about yourself as a student leader that maybe you didn't know when you first entered college?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (07:31)
Yeah. Um, I think one of the biggest things is I, I would say even beginning of high school I guess, uh, I was somebody that was very shy. Mm-hmm . Um, so I think, uh, kind of breaking out of that shell was me putting myself out there in these organizations. I think that's kind of, uh, what I've seen in myself. And then even just in college, I think, uh, I mean, high school and college is such a big difference for sure. Um, you know, like the amount of people, um, and then even just the communities that you get to be a part of, just very different, I would say. So I think, um, me being able to push myself out there, I think that's something that I've able to learn a lot about myself. Um, you know, just, uh, yeah, just I guess, yeah, me just putting myself out there.

Grant Freking: (08:14)
Right. Yeah. And what have you, have you, um, learned how to manage people? You know, some, it's probably a little tough sometimes 'cause I'm sure some of these people that are in these organizations or your friends too, and Yeah. Have you had any, have any hard conversations about like, Hey, maybe I need to step it up or maybe I need more out of you. Yeah. How have you sort of handled those conversations as you develop into a never growing responsibility of a student leader?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (08:36)
Yeah. Uh, I think that's definitely a huge part. I think communication, um, with your like, you know, peers and then also when you have an exec board, I think that kind of very much differs mm-hmm . And I think kind of finding that balance between, you know, friendship. 'cause there are, you're so right. 'cause there are quite a few friends, uh, of mine who are part of these organizations and even a few that are on, you know, leadership with me. Uh, so I think finding that balance is, uh, it was definitely kind of hard, I would say, to navigate. Um, but I think, uh, I'm getting better at it, uh, you know, day by day for sure. Um, but I think there have been definitely a few, um, times where I've had to kind of sit down and kind of figure out like what their role specifically looks like. Um, 'cause sometimes, you know, life gets busy, like honestly, I completely understand. Um, so some people aren't able to, you know, give back to the degree that they might've, you know, kept on or kind of signed up for. Um, so I think kind of having those tough conversations definitely learn a lot through that. Uh, 'cause sometimes it's how you approach those conversations and stuff like that, uh, that really do matter, obviously to keep those relationships. Yeah. So I think that's definitely been something that I've had to navigate for

Grant Freking: (09:44)
Sure. Yeah. Well, that'll serve you well, definitely in the professional environment for sure. Yeah. In a few years. Um, let's switch to switch to your academics. Um, three majors is a lot. Sounds like a lot. Yeah. So tell me about the combination you have. You have business, you're studying business analytics, finance and operations management. What's your rationale for the those select three?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (10:03)
Yeah. Um, uh, so it first started just with business analytics, me coming in. Uh, and I would say that kind of came in, uh, through some of my experiences with analytics and kind of having some, uh, like hands-on experience. I guess just working with, um, you know, data specifically. Uh, and then kind of, uh, making, kind of telling a story with it, I guess. Kind of making sure that people that aren't as hands-on are able to understand it in a way. Um, that's kind of just like easy to comprehend for like, pretty much just like a everyday person, you know? Yeah. Like that might not know like how these numbers really work.

Grant Freking: (10:37)
Yeah. Making it digestible.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (10:38)
Yes, exactly. Um, so I think just making it, uh, you know, like visually easy to understand all of that, like, as you said, digestible for pretty much anybody to really comprehend. Um, that was something that I knew I wanted to like hone in on. Um, so I think that started off, you know, of course with business analytics and I knew that I wanted to pursue that. Um, and then that's slowly kind of translated into me also adding operations management later on. And I think I see myself, uh, you know, down the line having some kind of a managerial role, um, like, you know, some sometime in the future, uh, like that, that was, uh, that kind of prompted me to add operations management. And I also think understanding the behind the scenes of, you know, any kind of operation business is very important. Um, like just fundamentally just to know. Uh, and then, uh, later on I also kind of chose to add finance as well. Uh, I actually joined, um, an work called Women in Finance. Okay. Uh, and that kind of really helped me hone in on like, you know, me wanting to actually pursue that as well. I think all three of those, um, are, you know, like a very cool, um, like mixture of different majors that we have to offer. Uh, and I think it'll definitely serve me Right. You know, even in the future, so. Yeah. Yeah.

Grant Freking: (11:53)
Absolutely. So, um, let's transition to talk about co-op a little bit. What type of co-op experiences have you had so far?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (12:00)
Yeah. Um, so I've, uh, it kinda started, uh, during high school for me. Um, so I was able to experience, uh, like a finance and accounting internship, um, with GMI companies. Um, and that was definitely I think my first leeway into, um, you know, the business world. Uh, I guess, uh, and then later on I was able to actually also get an experience with, um, a financial planning firm. Um, and I think that was definitely something that really I think, I guess opened my eyes to like the finance world specifically. Mm. Um, I was able to do some analytics work with them as well. So I think, um, kind of honing in on those skills, I knew that I wanted to, you know, pursue that in the future as well. Um, and then, uh, later on as well, I was actually, uh, offered an opportunity actually through a professor here at uc. Oh. Um, which was, uh, it's called, um, little Fork Child Advocacy Center. Um, so, uh, I think in a way it's giving back, uh, to the community in a way as well. And I think, uh, being able to work with kind of like a nonprofit as well, definitely very rewarding, uh, in my opinion. So I think experiencing those different opportunities have definitely, uh, you know, strengthened not just my skills, but, um, you know, also just me as, you know, a young, like, you know, developing professional. So,

Grant Freking: (13:17)
Yeah. And co-op experiences come in all shapes and sizes too, so not, not just sort of the, sort of the traditional one too. So it's cool to hear your perspective on that for sure. On, in terms of like the soft skills maybe you've acquired, what have you, what surprised you the most? Or what have you learned about working in professional environments that you kind of, you just couldn't pick up on in classrooms because it's just not there?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (13:39)
Oh, yeah. Um, I think it sometimes, uh, in classrooms, uh, there's a lot of like collaborative work that you do, at least, um, that's kind of what I've noticed. Um, and, you know, the classes that I've taken so far, um, I think sometimes even, um, I mean, when you're kind of working like a desk job, I would say, uh, you do obviously hop onto meetings and stuff like that, have a little bit of collaborative environment, but there's a lot of kind of just, uh, hands down time where it's just like, you're, you, you just have to focus on your specific tasks that you're given. Um, yeah. So I think that was definitely a little bit of an adjustment. It's something new that I had to learn when I, you know, started taking on these internships. Um, like obviously, you know, that you have like this project to work on, but I think that collaborative environment, uh, I'm very used to that at uc, you know, when you're involved, uh, even just with classes, working on projects with a lot of people.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (14:27)
Um, so I think that was definitely something that I was able to experience, uh, that was, uh, new. Um, and then I think as far as like soft skills, um, I think that's something that you learn as you, you know, kind of like experience, um, you know, co-ops, like, you know, being in a professional environment. Um, but I think, uh, uc like definitely prepared me so well for those experiences. I would say, um, when you are part of organizations and also leadership, I think you have to keep yourself in a professional, conduct yourself in a professional manner for sure. Um, so I think taking, um, those bits and pieces of experience that I'm able to, um, you know, hone onto, like I was able to for sure, you know, utilize in these experiences.

Grant Freking: (15:10)
What would you say has been the biggest challenge that you've encountered? You know, in college? Could be academically, could be in on a co-op. Yeah. What's like been the biggest challenge that you can remember so far?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (15:21)
I think, uh, for me, uh, I, I feel like I've been able to slowly navigate through this, but it's definitely like the time management aspect. Hmm. Um, you know, I feel like we have a lot of students who are such huge, um, like overachievers, even some, so it's just like, I think balancing not just, you know, the academics, the extracurriculars, and then some people managing, you know, multiple jobs as well. Um, like I think for me personally, um, like finding that balance was definitely, um, a bit challenging in the beginning. Um, but I think we are able, we get so many resources, um, specifically, um, you know, the career coaches, academic advisors, uh, I think that extra support that I was able to kind of lean on, um, made the biggest difference for me personally at least. So I think just talking to them, having other conversations on, you know, what classes to take.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (16:10)
Um, you know, I think even just figuring out what orgs, uh, are, you know, kind of worth, you know, investing like my full energy in, I guess in time. Yeah. Um, I think figuring that out was definitely the biggest challenge. Um, 'cause sometimes, uh, like at least for me personally, I just wanted to be part of really like everything honestly. Um, so it was just, uh, kind of honing in on like, you know, those specific works that, you know, you wanna give back to and you know, you're gonna get, um, you know, a ton out of as well experience wise. Um, and then also I think the first and foremost thing is obviously doing well in classes as well, so being able to balance that. Uh, I think that was definitely something, uh, that was definitely, um, an adjustment curve for me, but I think, you know, it's going well so far, so Yeah.

Grant Freking: (16:54)
Yeah. Don't want to extend yourself too much. Exactly. Gotta remember that you're a college student too. Yeah. Even though if you want to do all these professional pursuits. Yeah. Um, let's talk to like the, the, the future a little bit and sort of where you want to position yourself in your field. What sort of business trends are you paying attention to that most relate, I guess, to your career field and or trends that could affect your career field as you look into the full-time job pool in a couple of years?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (17:19)
Yeah. Um, I think for me personally, um, for like full-time specifically right now, um, I know for a fact that I would probably wanna go into something, um, with analytics, um, or even with, you know, the operations management, even something with, um, you know, a supply chain, um, kind of like, uh, structure as well, I guess. Yeah. Um, so I think for me personally, I think it's, uh, really figuring out, um, like obviously what you wanna pursue specifically. Uh, I think I was able to kind of understand that through like, you know, the co-op experiences. Um, and I think now I'm able to like hone in on like the analytics aspect now. So I think I would probably wanna look into opportunities, um, that are able to, you know, I'm able to do a lot of hands-on analytics work, so I think that's what I see myself, um, doing in the next couple years full time, so. Right.

Grant Freking: (18:12)
What excites you the most about, I guess specifically the analytics field? Um, and I guess what keeps you kind of staying interested in it? Um, what is it, is it specific, specific subsets or what is it that excites you about the, the field of analytics? Yeah.

Hamsa Tadpatri: (18:25)
Um, I think for me personally, uh, it's the fact that it's constantly changing, honestly. Um, uh, I think with, you know, like AI being so huge now, um, you're able to use so many different tools, um, to make, uh, you know, this data kind of like comprehendible, um, for like anybody like we were talking about earlier. Yeah. Um, but I think that's something that really like, personally excites me. Um, and yeah, I think just having that experience is definitely gonna be super helpful.

Grant Freking: (18:54)
All right. Let's close with some, some advice. Um, and maybe some look back. Where would you tell your first year self, if you're walking through the doors of Wonder Hall for the first time, your first day of class Yeah. Freshman year. What would you tell young Hamsa?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (19:09)
Yeah. I think for me, uh, it's keeping an open mind. Uh, I think I had kind of this outlook on like how I wanted, you know, my college experience to look like. And there's obviously nothing wrong with that. Um, but I think for me personally, um, just leave the door open. Um, you know, take in the opportunities that you've, you've been given. Um, I think, uh, I think that's the biggest thing. 'cause even, um, you know, in college, I think a lot of people are so busy with everything that they do, but I think it's taking time also for yourself. Um, I think that's something that I've able to learn. Um, it took me a little bit, not just freshman year Yeah. But, uh, it definitely took me all my sophomore year to like kind of like figure that out as well. Um, but it, it's just kind of finding time for yourself as well. Uh, 'cause that's obviously very important. Um, so like, you know, keeping yourself not just busy with, you know, like your academics and like extracurriculars, but also time for yourself. Um, and that can, obviously for some people, uh, I think that just looks like just working out for some people, reading or even just kind of hanging out with friends. Um, so I think that's something that I would definitely tell myself, um, like freshman year myself, so, yeah.

Grant Freking: (20:18)
Yeah. What do you think or what do you hope you'll be most proud of 30 years from now when you're a successful business person? What do you think you'll be most proud of when you look back on your Lindner experience 30 years from now?

Hamsa Tadpatri: (20:31)
Um, I think for me personally, I would definitely be, um, very proud of the fact that I was able to kind of establish something, um, here at uc. Uh, I hope that obviously it's able to, you know, continue, um, you know, throughout, uh, you know, after, after like, you know, I graduate, graduate

Grant Freking: (20:50)
Of

Hamsa Tadpatri: (20:50)
Course. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think, uh, you know, starting these organizations, I feel like I'm very proud of, you know, how they've been able to, you know, shape not just my journey, but uh, also the people that are involved in it as well. Um, so I think that's something that I will look back at and feel definitely, um, proud that I was able to accomplish that. 'cause I, I obviously know like how much time, you know, was spent on it. Yeah. Um, the people that really supported me through that, you know, like journey of, you know, establishing it as well. Um, so I think that's something that I will look back at, um, and definitely feel proud of.

Grant Freking: (21:24)
Yeah. Hamsa, thank you for your time today. Thank you for making the trip down rom Mason. Um, we're certainly glad you're here at Lindner and we really value, especially as a student leader, influencing other students in a positive manner. So thank you for coming on Bearcats Mean Business. Thank

Hamsa Tadpatri: (21:37)
You so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Grant Freking: (21:39)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenged your thinking or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lindner.

Grant Freking: (00:00)
What does real world success in business actually look like? Welcome the Bearcats mean business, the official podcast of the University of Cincinnati's, Carl h Lindner College of Business, where inspiring career stories, honest lessons, and fresh business perspectives from the people building impact in the real world. Come together, tune in for inspiration, practical business insights, and forward-looking thought leadership on how ambition turns into action. And now for today's episode,

Marianne Lewis: (00:31)
Dan, it's such a pleasure to have you here today. Thank you.

Dan Schimberg: (00:34)
You're welcome. I'm excited.

Marianne Lewis: (00:36)
I think this is a great opportunity from for us all to, to learn from your experience, your role model. I mean, I think your, personally, I think your career journey is fascinating as an entrepreneur and as a leader. And I wondered if we could just dive in there, because you started rehabbing a single property near uc, the University of Cincinnati, and it was, I think in the 1980s. What did you see that others overlooked and right our backyard?

Dan Schimberg: (01:03)
Well, I was a student at uc, and it was back in the, when the, when the, uh, movie animal house was filmed. And honestly, you could not find a nice place to live. And I'm not talking about granite countertops. I'm I, I'm really referring to windows that operated, maybe central air conditioning, off street parking, just normal, uh, middle class regular people who want a nice place to live. And uc was, was emerging from a, from really a commuter school to, to a university, um, where people wanted to live there and they just couldn't find good housing. And so what I wanted to do was create housing units that really didn't exist and safe, clean, good, good working windows, functional, maybe a dishwasher. And I remember the other landlord saying, I don't know why you're fixing it up. You don't need to do that. They'll rent it anyway. And it was at a time long before the internet, of course. And, and so there was no reputational harm that other landlords had by treating their residents poorly. Mm-hmm . And I didn't care about that. I wanted to provide a product that didn't exist.

Marianne Lewis: (02:30)
It strikes me that because you were a student at uc, you also knew how much it mattered to those who were actually living in those facilities. I mean, it was personal as well as professional.

Dan Schimberg: (02:40)
I was never able to stay in one of my housing units for more than one year because they were so poorly maintained and the landlords were, were not respectful of their residents. Um, and I really wanted to change that.

Marianne Lewis: (02:58)
I, I think, I think, think it's remarkable how much you and your efforts have changed our, our region all around the campus. And thinking of you as an entrepreneur, because it's always about taking risks and managing uncertainty, but you were making bets on neighborhoods that a lot of people were avoiding at the time. Um, how did you develop the confidence to keep investing when the outcome was so uncertain? 'cause that's such part of the process.

Dan Schimberg: (03:25)
Ignorance. It's bliss. Yeah. There, uh, had I, it was, it was more difficult than I thought it would be. Um, entrepreneurs by nature are extremely optimistic human beings. Um, I really planted a flag in Corryville mm-hmm . At the time. And Corryville was a, an outright dangerous neighborhood. Um, but so perfectly located between what was then General Hospital, which is now uc Health and the University of Cincinnati. And it was just, it, it's a pretty small neighborhood. It, it's really only four blocks. Mm-hmm . By about five blocks. And it just didn't seem like a massive task to start rehabbing houses. And they were so beautifully located. Yeah. Um, but the crime kept popping up. Mm-hmm . Uh, I remember once we were rehabbing a multi-family building in Corryville, and the kids in the neighborhood kept throwing rocks through our new windows. And so I got a bunch of the kids together and I said, every Thursday the ice cream truck's gonna come. I'm buying all the kids in the neighborhood ice cream from the ice cream truck if there are no broken windows this week. And that's ultimately how that's beautiful. We built, got the kids in the neighborhood to start behaving, and I just had an open wallet at the ice cream truck that came down, Corryville and all the kids lined up and I bought 'em all ice cream every Thursday. .

Marianne Lewis: (05:01)
Okay. I love that. It's, it's, it's a different version of the Broken Windows Theory for Right. New York City. I like it. It's the ice cream version of it. Yeah.

Dan Schimberg: (05:10)
It's great.

Marianne Lewis: (05:10)
Um, we've been talking about your entrepreneurial capabilities and, and how you started with your risk taking. I wanna move to leadership, but before I do, I think it would be helpful for others to understand how you grew. I mean, can you talk a little bit about your scale? 'cause we said you started with one property, but I think before we go to the leadership, it's helpful for people to understand you now run a big organization and that scale is really impressive.

Dan Schimberg: (05:38)
Yeah. It, it, um, uh, when you start a little company, you never imagine it being a big company. Mm-hmm . And it really happens organically for most people. Um, and, and so we really, I was a one man show. Uh, I would go see a banker and then I'd show an apartment, and then I would fix a dishwasher, and then I would paint, and then I would go look for another house to buy. And so, and what happens is in small organizations is you, you only have so many hours in a day. And so the only way you're gonna grow an organization is begin to lever your time mm-hmm . And by levering your time, you take off one hat at a time, um, and you give it to someone else. You, you hire a leasing agent and, and now they're out. And you have to trust that they're doing what they say they're gonna do.

Dan Schimberg: (06:37)
And, and one of my, uh, core values is, uh, hire the people you trust and trust the people you hire. Um, I, I've always given our employees a lot of autonomy, and I tell them to bring their brains to work mm-hmm . And I expect that. Um, but really it was, it was a slow, slow crawl. Uh, in the beginning. I really wanted to be a big fish in a small pond, basically own all the buildings myself, and do whatever I could do within the capacity of my own ability to finance those. That turned out to be a, a decision that slowed my growth for really 15 years until I had to go out and embrace and find investors, give up slices of the pie, and become a smaller fish in a bigger pond, which ultimately allowed, uh, us to accelerate our growth over time.

Marianne Lewis: (07:43)
And it is such a challenge with, with entrepreneurs with scaling because it, it, you're trading off some of the control, but you're doing that through trust, as you said, through partnerships. Yeah. How did your leadership change? I mean, you talked about a little bit how you scaled, right? With handing off the hats. I love that I can picture the in Yeah. That metaphor, but how did your leadership style?

Dan Schimberg: (08:06)
I had to get used to people, um, bringing problems to me. Um, when you're doing it by yourself, you're really, you're the problem solver. Mm-hmm . And, and to lead, you're really asking your team to continually identify problems, finding solutions. Um, and, and, and getting out of the weeds was very difficult for me because I was the guy doing all the weeding for a long time. Um, but it was really building that core group of what now is almost our executive team. Mm-hmm . Uh, because they've been there for 20 years, many of 'em, um, and really allowing them to run with the ball. They understand the core values of the company, and I would hold them a accountable, uh, to, to, to lead, uh mm-hmm . For me and with me. And, and I think, you know, my leadership style is one that is, was rather unstructured in the beginning, I will admit mm-hmm . Um, and, but I really leaned on them to, to find the solutions and, and drive the company to our core values that we all agree on. Mm-hmm . We also, um, uh, quickly moved to having kind of annual, uh, retreats to make sure that the communication interdepartmentally was done. It, it, it, it's one of the bigger challenges as you're growing an organization, that everyone knows what people are doing. Yeah. Why they're doing it, how, when, and so interdepartmental communication, uh, has always been a, a focus of ours.

Marianne Lewis: (10:08)
And it sounds like you've, you've, even, as you've, you've grown and been more hands off, you're still very hands on. And maybe it's in the conceptual pieces, and you think about how, how all the puzzle pieces are fitting together. So, well, one of the things that we've talked about, I mean, you work so closely with our, our uc Center for Real Estate, and I, I've come to deeply value that group. I mean, I, I'm, I'm not in real estate, I'm in management, but it is so interdisciplinary, and it's something I valued with Gary Painter coming in and thinking about our work with engineering and with dap. I'm gonna ask you to put a little bit more of your urban planner hat on, because I love, when I hear you, you, you talk and think aloud. You do think, like, very much like an urban planner, even though you're very much a, a investor. And you think about the finance side, which is more what we think is maybe a typical real estate approach. Um, but you, you seem to balance in, I think, in exceptional ways, the realities of business growth and the investments and partners that come in there with the responsibility of shaping neighborhoods. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how you manage that balancing act there.

Dan Schimberg: (11:19)
I care deeply about the neighborhoods, especially in the neighborhoods of the uptown. Um, they're critically important to the university thriving. Mm-hmm . Um, in the late nineties, short Vine as an example, really fell into deep despair, and there was a lot of serious crime homicides. And we gathered the University of Cincinnati, the city of Cincinnati, a couple major stakeholders along with us, and we did an urban renewal plan. And I had never been involved in an urban renewal plan before. And, and it created a roadmap. And many of these urban renewal plans go, go into a drawer somewhere mm-hmm . And it's a, and it's a big wish. Um, and, and we took that urban renewal plan and carried it around with us and went into the Corryville Community Council and said, this is what they said we had to do. And continued to drive that. I'd go to the city, I'd go to the university.

Dan Schimberg: (12:24)
This is the plan we all agreed on. And I kept pulling it out. That plan was the 2004 Corryville Urban Development Plan. And if you look at that plan today, we have, we have completed that plan. Okay. That's impressive. And that plan called for 2000 people to be new residents, to be living on short vine, for example. Big, one of the big challenges in doing this is dragging the investors along because investors, they may not care about the neighborhood. They are only returns, they're only looking at returns. Mm-hmm . And, and so we have a passionate group of investors who are willing to follow me into these neighborhoods. That's fantastic. And, and I think it's critically important. Mm-hmm. And it has paid big dividends because when you are successful, you are part of the renaissance of a neighborhood, and you do get those returns. And so, um, yeah.

Dan Schimberg: (13:24)
There's a, there's a writ high risk there, but there is a reward there of mm-hmm . Being in Corryville 20 years earlier than others. And in Mount Auburn. Um, and, and I'll tell you one of the best examples is we bought an acre of land in Corryville where the Eden sits today, and it was auctioned off by the city of Cincinnati in the early 1990s. And they started at a dollar, and I bid a dollar, and I bought it for a dollar. No one else bid on that in the middle of a real slum, uh, where crime was very, very high. And so that's, that's the reward side of it. That's the risk side of being able to see a neighborhood, being able to see something around the corner before it's developed mm-hmm . And, and then relying on your instincts to, to take it there and understand the risk reward of that.

Dan Schimberg: (14:25)
Mount Auburn is another prime, prime example mm-hmm . Where everyone was talking about connecting up to town and downtown. Yet there had been no private investment in Mount Auburn in almost 60 years other than Christ Hospital. No. Investors were going in there, building housing, building apartments, building infrastructure, remodeling the parks. And we identified that 60 years, the message when everyone was talking about Right. Connecting uptown and downtown Uhhuh . And so we, we assembled the land for Wellington Alto. So we went into Mount Auburn, found investors who were willing to spend a hundred million dollars in Mount Auburn, and now Mount Auburn has taken root.

Marianne Lewis: (15:07)
I I love hearing you, Dan, because I can, I can picture in my mind, I mean, you are such a developer. I mean, yes, there's the physical development, there's the neighborhood development, but there's very much the human development. I mean, and you see these working synergistically Yeah. And you, you clearly are able to share that vision effectively with investors, whether or not they, not or not, they really wanna lean into the really big pictures It is gonna pay off Yeah. As

Dan Schimberg: (15:30)
Well. And the, and you have to bring the neighborhood along. You have to, I mean, especially to

Marianne Lewis: (15:35)
Sustain

Dan Schimberg: (15:36)
The fact that Hollister Street is a two-way street now, which allows people to cut up to Mount Auburn from Vine Street, which used to be one way down. Mm-hmm. Right. It, it takes ambulance traffic away. It helps. Right. But you have to be able to bring these ideas to the neighborhood, to the city, and marshal them through. And there is no return on investment for us to do that other than get to see the neighborhood flourish mm-hmm . And ultimately all boats rise with the tide.

Marianne Lewis: (16:06)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think in that, in that developer mindset, let's go a little bit more into the human side because it strikes me that you've always taken your, taken your role as a role model and a mentor. Seriously. And when it comes to young and rising leaders, I'd be interested in what qualities you're looking for in, in young professionals entering real estate or entrepreneurs today that you see, oh, I see that spark. What are you looking for?

Dan Schimberg: (16:35)
Um, you know, it, it's a great question. First of all, when I meet my mentees, um, I always meet them e either seven 30 or eight in the morning for coffee. So the first thing I look for is someone who shows up on time. Mm-hmm . Absolutely. And I also look for people who aren't so worried about making a lot of money early on. Um, so I'm looking for people who are trying to develop the craft. Okay. Um, and, and understand that a lot of people come and they say, I want to be a developer. There is no major for developers. There is no, a, a, a developer is someone who has suburban, suburban planning mm-hmm . Some architects, some finance, some, and a lot of different pieces that are put together. Um, and so what I look for in mentees who come and ask for advice is, where should I jump in?

Dan Schimberg: (17:38)
What do I need to be learning? They're not asking, how do I go make the most amount of money tomorrow? Mm-hmm . Um, it's really what do I need to learn? Where do I go to get that? How can I be involved? Can I watch, you know, something I learned, uh, through a process is people only learn through three different ways. Experience, exposure, and formal education. Mm-hmm . The three E's mm-hmm . And how people pursue that is, is very, very important. College MBAs very important educationally. Mm-hmm . But then it's, are you gonna go swim? Are you gonna go watch someone learn how to swim and, and are you gonna take these plans down to the permit desk mm-hmm . Or are you going to send someone else? And getting that experience and exposure is really how you ultimately become a developer. And so I look for, I, I look for kids especially who are prompt and want to understand how they need to learn the craft. Mm-hmm

Marianne Lewis: (18:45)
. I love that. Three pronged. I mean, they're all ease. They are. And we, we invented cooperative education here because we believe that they can work together really well.

Dan Schimberg: (18:56)
They need to.

Marianne Lewis: (18:57)
I, I mean, if you can build that synergistic Yeah. The exposure, the experience, and the formal education, it's a win-win. And you've worked with uc and Lindner a long time. I mean, you have quite a pipeline of Bearcats in your office. I wonder what, how you might describe our students if you were talking to other employers as we, we build out our pipeline for partners, co-op, co-op employers in the future. Is there, is there something that you see of the work that we do and, and what can we learn from your experience? Well,

Dan Schimberg: (19:30)
The co-op program is, is unmatched, uh, as far as I know. Um, and I encourage so many employers to take advantage of it because it's really the other, the other two E's. Yeah. Um, it's the experiencing, the exposure, exposure that, that, uh, co-op students are getting. And, and you need all three to learn to understand, um, and to succeed. Mm-hmm . Um, the students coming outta uc, especially in the co-op program we've had, we've had so many. Our vice president of property management, who's on our executive team, started as a part-time leasing agent, and then co-op, and then ultimately has worked, uh, his way all the way through the ranks. But we love our uc co-ops.

Marianne Lewis: (20:20)
I, and I love to hear that, Dan, very much, I mean, you were once in their shoes, right? You were a student. If you were looking back and, and talking to yourself then, is, is there any particular lesson or lessons you'd really want us to be instilling in the student today to help them on this journey?

Dan Schimberg: (20:41)
That's a, that's a great question. Um, you know, we, I'm thinking about our co-ops that, that we've hired. We often try to get co-ops in six month tranches instead of three months. Mm-hmm . Um, we found that they, three months, by the time the onboarding, the training, um, it, it felt too short to us because there's so much to learn. We found that our, our six month co-ops were very, very successful. And so we would kind of seek our six month co-ops. Um, but it's, uh, I, I told my son, uh, uh, who's in Chicago working for a real estate company. I said, Jake, do not worry if the, if you need to go get your boss a cup of coffee. Absolutely. That's fine. You're in the room, you're learning, you're getting experience, you're getting exposure. And, um, so it's really, don't worry about if you're sweeping a floor or you're preparing a spreadsheet or you're getting coffee, or you get called into the executive team meeting to help, uh, present something. It's all part of the, it's all part of the final cake that you're building. Yeah. It's all, they're all ingredients. Um, and you have to, you have to be willing, uh, to do all of it. You do to, to bake a cake. You can't just put, you know, you can't forget the flour or the eggs or the, or the vanilla. Um, you really need all the ingredients to become a, a young professional.

Marianne Lewis: (22:14)
You know, don't

Dan Schimberg: (22:15)
Be too proud.

Marianne Lewis: (22:16)
Don't be too proud, and don't be too inflexible. Because the one, one piece I heard you saying, it was something we thought so much about when we were moving the college to mandatory, um, co-op, which engineering and DAP have been, since it's the onset, certainly engineering from the onset, we realized we needed to have a more flexible program because different employers want different things. And I think the sixth month is a wonderful example of something we could lean into more. Yeah. Because I agree the ups and downs of, of startup and, and ramp down, there's a whole value to every, the way you just said it. We could use you as an example for others. So thank you for that.

Dan Schimberg: (22:54)
You touched on real estate being interdisciplinary mm-hmm . And I remember speaking with, uh, Dr. Ono Santa Ono mm-hmm . And he, and he really pushed kind of the interdisciplinary piece to it, because real estate is, it's architecture, it's urban planning, it's finance, and, um, it's sales. It's, it's, it's every piece. And so the interdisciplinary approach to it is, is critically important to be teaching and for the students when they're considering co-ops, uh, to explore and understand, even though they have their eyes set on finance or their eyes set because mm-hmm . That experiential learning, uh, helps, helps you when you're putting your assumptions in the spreadsheet mm-hmm .

Marianne Lewis: (23:45)
Absolutely. And look, learn how to work with others from different disciplines Right. Into that bigger model. I, the, the other piece that's a little different from interdisciplinary is, is almost inter level. And what I mean by that is you think about the community in a really beautiful way, and I have found in, in my line of work that the greatest leaders think about their jobs well beyond their organizations. You think about Cincinnati, you've always thought about Cincinnati, and you, it shows in your volunteer work Yeah. As an example that goes well beyond, I mean, into healthcare and research and community organizations. I, I would love you to share a bit why you take the time to do that, because I'd love the students in particular to understand there's a, there's a bigger world out there than your job, and your job matters a great deal, but you've, you've leaned into volunteerism in some really impactful ways. Why,

Dan Schimberg: (24:39)
Um, I get enormous satisfaction from, uh, seeing a problem and being part of the solution. Mm-hmm . Uh, and that core satisfaction, uh, runs through my professional life and my non-professional life, and no different than I saw a problem of not being able to find decent housing as a student and wanting to be part of that solution is the same when I see elderly people and they're unable to care for their yard. And I got involved with people working cooperatively, and I could see how this helped. I could see when I walk down to over the Rhine and there's, and I'm stepping over litter on my three mile walk to Findlay market to understand that we have a trash problem in Cincinnati and getting involved in Keep Cincinnati beautiful. I get enormous personal satisfaction and professional satisfaction out of seeing and identifying a problem and being part of a team that finds a solution to it. Mm-hmm . And it really will be my next chapter when I hang up my developer hat. Um, I want to lean into that. I want to be part of the solution as problems come up. Cincinnati has been a great city. It's a five generation city for our family, and, uh, I really want to make it as good as it can possibly be, and we'll do what I can, what I'm able to contribute,

Marianne Lewis: (26:27)
Which we've already seen, is enormous. Thank what you can contribute. I mean, I, I sometimes feel for the students today in that and, and, and debate how to show them how much this area has transformed. This is not the same place it was when I got here in 97. You've been here since 80, and it, it continues. What do you see as the future? You look in your crystal ball, I mean, where you just shared where you're gonna go. Yeah. You're really gonna lean in more to the community. What do you see as the opportunities for Cincinnati and particularly the area around campus?

Dan Schimberg: (27:03)
Uh, I, I love the urban core. Mm-hmm . Uh, in Cincinnati and other urban cores. I, I'm, I'm so interested in the lifestyle of living the urban core versus suburban. Mm-hmm . Um, uptown is really the second largest economic engine in the city. Um, I guess you could consider the greater Cincinnati airport as, as, as a, a big economic engine also. Mm-hmm . When you really look at it as downtown and uptown, the, the, uh, interchange at Martin Luther King and the innovation corridor, uh, still remains really the biggest untapped urban resource in Cincinnati, uh, by far mm-hmm . Uh, the biggest opportunity. There's, there's a billion dollars of development still to happen, and the connectivity of all of the jobs up here at Children's Hospital, uc, health University of Cincinnati, the ho, you know, the other hospitals, Christ Hospital, and the proximity to downtown, the, the proximity to the highways, the, uh, the, the corporate, uh, integration that you see is, is managing through their 18, 19 hub.

Dan Schimberg: (28:23)
Um, I think there's just enormous, enormous upside, uh, in the uptown still. Mm-hmm . Still laughed. I, I think, you know, we've seen a a, a, we've seen a great recovery from, from the blight of the eighties and nineties and really early two thousands. Um, we have repopulated the neighborhoods, uh, I think working on, uh, the pedestrian connectivity mm-hmm . Is gonna be critically important. It's gonna be very, very interesting as ai, autonomous vehicles and all these other pieces continue to, um, emerge. It's obviously going to change the trajectory, but I think it's quite, um, I think, I think we're well on our way, but there's a lot of rope left in these neighborhoods.

Marianne Lewis: (29:14)
I think that's very exciting. Yeah. Because there is more potential. Excuse me. We'll cut that out. Mm-hmm . Um, it, it's exciting because there is such potential ongoing, I mean, we're gonna continue to watch it transform, and I hope it continues to make you proud. It certainly makes me proud and energized of what's possible ahead.

Dan Schimberg: (29:35)
And you see the university, I mean, practically weekly, they're announcing new buildings, new initiatives, new uh, programs, how they're, how they're rolling things out, how it's growing. Um, I mean, the, this university is not sitting on its hands and

Marianne Lewis: (29:51)
It stands for under construction.

Dan Schimberg: (29:52)
That's right. Um, but, but I mean, it's, it's been extraordinary. Mm-hmm . And our growth and the neighborhood's growth is only but for the growth of Children's Hospital, uc Health, the University of Cincinnati, their surrounding institutions we're really, um, part of it. But it it's the institutions that need to continue to thrive and create the jobs and create the platforms for the students to want to come here and stay here.

Marianne Lewis: (30:23)
Yeah. Oh, make it a magnet. Yeah. I mean, a attractor and

Dan Schimberg: (30:27)
Retention and retain Yeah.

Marianne Lewis: (30:28)
Both. I, I absolutely agree. Um, this has been such a wonderful conversation because it is, it epitomizes why you're being recognized at our major event for the uc Real Estate Center, and I'm really excited about that. Thank you. And I wondered if you'd just share why and how you've been working with the, the Center over these years, because we so appreciate you.

Dan Schimberg: (30:54)
Thank you. Um, it was really interesting. We were doing a lot of work in Tallahassee, Florida at the same time. We were doing a lot of work here, um, about really, if you go back 10 years, um, and I was already really involved in the real estate school here, a BEARE member. Mm-hmm . And then you had asked about leadership and employees. We had several employees really step up. Craig Kaufman in our office, um, really stepped up into a, a leadership role at the, at the school. And I think it's just critically important. Um, development and real estate are just, are just so important to a city and mm-hmm . Supporting the real estate school like we were doing at Florida State University that has an extraordinary real estate school. Um, it, it, it's brought us a lot of joy and a lot of success and we've been able to watch these kids grow out of this program into real, real estate professionals Oh, absolutely. In the city. And I have a lot of friends who run companies in town that, uh, came out of the co-op program and came out of the real estate school specifically, uh, that are thriving. And it's been really very, very rewarding to watch and see.

Marianne Lewis: (32:13)
I love to hear that. Thank you for helping us develop the future professionals of development of real estate, but also for continuing to help this, this region thrive. Great. It is such a pleasure, Dan.

Dan Schimberg: (32:24)
Thank you. My pleasure. This has been fun.

Grant Freking: (32:27)
Thank you for listening to this episode of Bearcats Mean Business. If today's episode sparked a new idea, challenge your thinking or helped you see your path a little more clearly, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the episode with someone in your network. Thanks for being part of the conversation. And remember, real world success begins here at Lender.